5mo ago
(news.ycombinator.com)
846 thread views
#221760
argue about cloud hosting versus self hosting for hundreds of comments
You get the just "self host everything and do it all DIY in a collocation datacenter" 
nerds versus the "I pay for multiple 28 core vms for my status checker app. The cloud just works" 
Only reasonable take in a page of flame
In my opinion the story here is that AWS allowed them to quickly build and prove out a business idea. This in turn afforded them the luxury to make this kind of switch. Cloud did it's job
tech/science swag. 
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/r/homelab and others are insufferable about this. Its a peepee measuring contest by cute twinks who treat servers like boomer muscle cars.
"bro, check out my enterprise hardware. the missus told me the rack stays in the garage. It costs $150/mo in electricity. updoots, amirite?"
"Cloud is SOMEONE ELSE'S SERVER. If you are paying a monthly fee, you're being taken advantage of. Just spend $4k on hardware to self host"
"I hekkin love the convenience and CICD tooling from cloud providers and SaSS providers. It makes my job so easy that I don't have to know anything about what I'm running!"
Why are redditors and slacknews posters the worst of computer tech?
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More like $500-$1k, 99% of codecels don't even need that to host whatever slop they're serving. Shit, they could probably make do with their old phone
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That's what I mean. There are guys on /r/homelab who dump a lot of money into enterprise rack mount hardware to feel like the big boys and flex on people.
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On the other side, a hobby project with no users costs like $3/mo to host on aws lambda (if there's no scaling) or $5/mo on a digital ocean vm
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I subscribed to that for a while because I like fricking around with raspberry pis and stuff. It was not what I expected. They run the most basic boring software (muh plex server) on this massively overpowered hardware for no reason at all. They just like to buy shit and never do anything interesting at all with what they have. I hate them so much.
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Why? Because they are almost all amatuers with no actual enterprise experience.
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Commenting on personal use:
I have fun self-hosting but the biggest annoyance is home internet not being geared to it unless you're lucky.
I hope Comcast's symmetric Gb comes true but there's not much I want to host with 40Mbps up.
Colo is cool too but it doesn't really solve self-hosting for me when it's $$$ just to talk to the host.
Proper cloud sites like fly.io or using Terraform is like black magic to me though, it's just really fun to write a couple YAML files and know exactly what you did even six months later.
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Why aren't you using EKS or another premade kubernetes and helm charts to run your status checker?
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I feel really dumb I've never set up k8s.
I've done preliminary research and every time I come out more confused.
I think k3s is the go-to one right now but I was kind of surprised there's not a "Promox for k8s"?
Granted this is all due to it being "cloud native", I get the concept is you're not supposed to self-host k8s - it's supposed to be a vendor-neutral container platform.
IME in my homelab Docker Compose scales pretty far for learning to, so I've not committed to another round of "what k8s project is alive still". (Though I'm using ESXi atm).
The last time I tried researching I learned that RancherOS had been dead since 2021 and was trying to release a new version.
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I have never met a DevOps "professional" who actually knows what they're doing with kubernetes but they all pretend they're serious professionals when it comes to it. It's a great way to increase costs for companies and get them hooked on cloud platforms. It's also a huge crutch for operations engineers where there is now a glut of them reading a kubernetes intro book and faking their way into the industry only to rely more and more on 3rd party "solutions" like JFrog. I guess it's like how zoomers have trouble understanding desktop operating systems because they grew up with phones.
You can look into portainer but idk if that does "k3s".
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Kubernetes is a great achievement of the human race.
Every company big enough to own data centers to support its non-tech business, is running Kubernetes to offer as a platform for its web application teams.
You mix in cloud provider Kubernetes to get scale while you build out more on-prem, or to have regional deployment targets where you don't have a DC yet.
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Yeah maybe I'm approaching it wrong because I want to understand the full stack like I can with docker and docker-compose. That clearly doesn't sell more SaaS though.
Yup Portainer is a cute project and I've set it up with my friendos who prefer web UIs.
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The problem with k8s is it's designed to solve issues that arise when you're running on several thousand physical servers spread across at least a half dozen distinct data centers with dark fiber between them. It doesn't scale down really, at least not in any kind of graceful or elegant way. It's unironically a terrible solution in most cases, but since Google or whoever use it, low iq "it professionals" think it's the right solution for everything under the sun.
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I want to make more money than I do pooping out react and this is literally my future career plan
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this is weird because I was told on this site I should shit out react instead of being a server janny to make more money
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frick, idk
Maybe it depends on the local market
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they want everyone to do everything and be everything.
write the code, deploy the code, monitor the servers, take customer complaints, handle billing, wipe your bosses butt.
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imo k8s only makes sense if you have multiple physical servers in your homelab
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I have the same issue. I'm on a business internet plan, and I still can only get 30Mb upload because they haven't built fiber to my house yet. I'm going to get 300Mb both ways sometime in the next 6 months though when the fiber is ready. As it is, I can't do cloud backups of my home servers because it takes more than 20 hours to do a single backup with the shitty cable upload speeds.
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Cloud makes sense for small businesses and start ups.
I've been working on a business case for us taking our Microsoft server estate into "the cloud" and, for a giant established organisation, there just isn't one. It's way more expensive.
But aggressive sales tactics keep making heads of IT itchy and wanting to jump on board.
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The pricing is bonkers at scale, they give discounts in a way that makes it near impossible to know what you are paying
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Not as bad as Bloomberg. They straight up won't tell you their pricing formulas. It's like going to the doctor, they just send you a bill at the end of the month.
I'm still shocked they're still relevant but regrettably they are.
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Its why AWS has a cost calculator. You have to hire competent AWS guys to minimize cost and predict costs but most people who put AWS on their resumes are r-slurs.
It all depends on the use case as well. Its your only option for data analysis workloads unless you want to make a cluster in a DC that you may not use in a couple years.
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That's not what I'm talking about, we get discounts on our bill but they aren't represented anywhere except the bill and it's not something like 10% off, it's different discounts for different resource types. It makes it very hard to know the true cost of anything without digging into what they promised.
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Interesting. We got an enterprise discount but only the billing lady who controlled the master account knew the numbers.
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I work at a big cloud provider and last year I racked up more than 100k in nominal costs from random test resources that I forgot to delete and nobody even noticed.
Our test pipelines can easily use up millions of dollars in usage in a year, but of course our actual costs are nowhere close to that. For customers, it's all about negotiating discounts, like you say. Nobody is paying anything close to the list price at scale.
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Cloud is incredibly convenient and you don't have any commitment(unless you pre-purchase hours for a discount) and a lot of things people don't think about when it comes to renting rack space are abstracted away. On the flip side, most people haven't dealt with a company what has owned servers, even tech employees, so now people are hooked on the convenience and guarantees. If you want hybrid cloud, you're going to have to pay someone a pretty penny who knows how to do both which is rare.
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You could also just Google hybrid cloud set up and get a $50k IT guy to do it
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Big companies won't go for that. They want more competent people than an "IT guy". They'd just hire a sexy Indian dude at that price.
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found the incel
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They should
self harm themselves
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Personally I'd like to move more things to our local server, but all the technology geared towards lawyers tends to be cloud based or otherwise absolutely r-slurred to self host.
I just want an ediscovery tool that can search pdfs well and quickly
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You can look into paperless-ngx with gotenberg and tikka. Not sure if that will help.
https://docs.paperless-ngx.com
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I'm a fan of paperless-ngx, unfortunately our document management system does not play nice with it
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Can you not use LaTeX for your network drives?
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I've never tried, but I'm also a
lawyer, so I haven't played with it too much.
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There's always pdfgrep
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god bless DIY self hosters for single handedly keeping the cloud-only panopticon future at bay
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have you seen openbsd.amsterdam
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nice desu ne
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I don't want to deal with a static IP and spending ~$5 a month to use some disposable VPS just werks
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Take comfort in knowing that God will avenge the blood of the innocent. Every knee will bow. No one will escape. Someday, the unrepentant abortionist will look across an uncrossable chasm at his own victims and beg for a drop of water to cool his tongue.
Snapshots:
ghostarchive.org
archive.org
archive.ph (click to archive)
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