emoji-award-marseywholesome
emoji-award-marseyscooter
Unable to load image

EFFORTPOST :marseysailor: Das Tuub | Titanic R-sluration

https://oceangate.com

I just found out about this submarine like an hour ago. I feel really bad for the people trapped inside, especially the kid, but they kinda deserve it for even getting on this thing. Everyone's laughing at the CEO for his dumbass DEI policies, but this is just surface level stuff (lol). No one's actually explained the depths of how r-slurred this guy and his company are, so I thought I'd take some time out of my actual engineering job while I'm sitting in a boring butt zoom meeting to properly call this guy a fricking r-slur, so you can all find this just as funny as I do. I thought you all might appreciate it a little more than just some sporadic tweets about the DEI shit he did. This is going to be like a Challenger-style breakdown and what exactly went wrong so you can appreciate this frick-up.

There's gonna be a lot of naval puns in this so bear with me here. A lot of this is coming from my friend, also an engineer, who's done more research into this than I have.


In the Boatginning

https://i.rdrama.net/images/16873693238826516.webp

Dramatards, I'd like to introduce you to Stockton Rush. Owner of the the most startup founder-ish name in history, this guy has been making janky submarines his entire life. He got his start in the aerospace industry, as a test engineer on the F-15 with McDonnell-Douglass. Anyone familiar with the industry will note that experience with McDonnell-Douglass is not necessarily a good thing on your resume.

https://www.businessinsider.in/international/news/maker-of-the-lost-titanic-sub-once-told-a-reporter-that-at-some-point-safety-is-just-pure-waste/amp_articleshow/101143398.cms

He's made a career out of building submarines that are cheaper and more accessible to the general population, and his company, OceanGate, has had a few successful designs. What's notable about his history, however, is that he's made them cheaper largely by bypassing safety standards. His first submarine that they operated was called Antipodes, was a refit sub built by a different company. Originally intended for research purposes, they used it instead for tourist dives.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/05/Cyclops_1_Submersible.jpg/330px-Cyclops_1_Submersible.jpg

The first actual submarine they built was the Cyclops 1, a carbon-fiber (we'll come back to this part) submarine controlled using a PlayStation controller, with an operational depth of 500m. The submarine is deployed/recovered from some weird floating drydock concept, which crucially allows them to not use human rated cranes to recover the submarine.

After seeing some moderate success, he's gone and built the submarine in question, the Titan, which is built from a composite carbon-fiber and titanium. They bought the hull from a company called Spencer Composites, who intended it to be SINGLE USE. The submarine was built to a factor-of-safety (multiple of how much of the expected load you can withstand before it breaks) of 2.25 (which is frick-all, especially for a submarine - should be at least 6, probably more like 10). . A lot of journ*lists who went on board the thing noted that most of the parts on the interior were sourced from local hardware stores, as were the ballast tanks. They were not, as you could imagine, comfortable about being on board once they realized this.


DEI-ing At Sea

https://x.com/CatchUpFeed/status/1671372796876984320?s=20

This guy's team is a bunch of young, impressionable diversity hires. He's explicitly avoided anyone with experience because they are old and white and men. They're not very inspirational, and so they don't have a place on Rush's team.

Anyone who has worked on an engineering project before knows that any engineer with less than 2 years of practical experience is a massive drain on the project and need to be babysat constantly, ESPECIALLY if they might kill someone. They're usually worth investing in because they'll give you a great return in the long run, but boy are those first couple of years hard.

I didn’t hire experienced people because I’m a racist

oh no my boat sank, how could this have possibly happened

:#marseypikachu2:

This is going to go a long way to explain why what happened did happen, so buckle up.


Frick-up #1: Carboat-Fiber

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/44/Kohlenstofffasermatte.jpg/330px-Kohlenstofffasermatte.jpg

Let's talk materials for a second. Carbon-fiber is what's called a composite material, because it's made from a couple of different types of material. You have the carbon fibers themselves, which are really resistant to being stretched in-plane (like pulling apart a sheet of paper), but have very little strength out of plane (like poking a hole in paper) or off-axis (they're woven into almost a cloth, if you pull at a 60 degree angle to that weave, they lose 80% of their strength).

Carbon fibers are usually set in place with solidified plastics, like epoxy. It solves a lot of problems as far as directional strength goes, but you still need to be careful with it. In a specific configuration, it has similar material properties to a common aerospace aluminium alloy (T-6061), while being a fraction of the weight. Great for airplanes and race cars, where mass is a factor.

Steel is the best material, and the only reason you use anything else is either because you don't want it to rust, or because you can't use steel. It's cheap, strong, and (crucially) it can be stressed over and over again without building up stress fractures. If you keep it under a certain limit, it will never break. NO OTHER MATERIAL DOES THIS.

This makes ideal for something that you're going to put under pressure, and then remove it from that pressure, over and over and over again, in a scenario where weight isn't a factor. Like, say, a submarine.

https://i.rdrama.net/images/16873693244748619.webp

Stockton Rush, however, is way too cool for steel :marseysmug3:. He has instead decided to build his submarine out of the super cool airplane material, without understanding why its there in the first place. Composite materials are generally vulnerable to snapping if they're loaded repeatedly, which is why the company that built this refused to endorse it after finding out it was going to be used like it was.

It's never been used on submarines before, and with really good reason. It's not just not an optimal choice, it's literally the worst one possible. From the Business Insider article:

The Titan sub was never checked to see if it was up to standard because of its "innovation," OceanGate said in 2019. The sub features a carbon fiber hull that had never been used on submersibles before, according to the "Unsung Science" podcast.

:#marseypain:

Rush managed to bypass safety standards yet again by using completely different materials and then claiming that the standards aren't relevant. They make you sign a massive waiver when you sign up. No one has actually checked if this thing is safe. There's no standard it's being held to, there's no regulation, no third-party review. No matter how good you are, you can always frick up. Their cavalier attitude towards safety has now probably killed the CEO and four other people.

From their blog:

Maintaining high-level operational safety requires constant, committed effort and a focused corporate culture – two things that OceanGate takes very seriously and that are not assessed during classification.

But it's ok, because they have a corporate culture of safety.


Frick-up #2: Electronixed

So this is an interesting note that I found is that the submarine has no onboard navigational system,. Yes, you read that correctly. They operate it by having a different ship monitor its position, and then send it text messages telling it where it is.

Journ*list David Pogue, who rode in Titan to view the Titanic in 2022, noted that Titan was not equipped with an emergency locator beacon; during his expedition, the surface support vessel lost track of the Titan "for about five hours, and adding such a beacon was discussed. They could still send short texts to the sub, but did not know where it was. It was quiet and very tense, and they shut off the ship's internet to keep us from tweeting."

:#marseyspit:

These people are all going to die

That's part of the reason they can't find it, is because the submarine doesn't know where it is, and can't tell anyone even if it did. It even failed before, and they still didn't fix it. That's not just stupid, it's criminally negligent.

The controls of this thing consist of a single button, and is piloted by a PlayStation controller. I'll point out that the idea of using a gamepad as a submarine helm control is not necessarily a bad one, and was actually implemented by USN submariners to great success. It's intuitive to zoomer helmsmen, really easy to teach, and was actually a way better control scheme than what they were using before. That being said, USN submarines are extremely well designed, very redundant, and extremely well-built. This stupid thing has none of that.

Because of the lack of navigation and emergency beacon, these people are very likely going to die, and it's going to be very unpleasant. It's really hard to find submarines even when they want to be found, and there's still no means of even rescuing these people even if they're found. They've got anti-submarine-warfare aircraft searching and everything, but still nothing.


Frick-up #3: Oxy-Constants

I can't think of a good pun for this. There's no real good source on this that I've seen because it's kind of an obscure problem, but they also fricked up the gas lines on the ship.

When maintaining an atmosphere for people to breathe, you have to be pretty careful with the gas composition. You need gas cyclers to remove CO2 buildup, and replace it with oxygen. Nitrogen doesn't need to be replaced because it's not consumed. This is standard on airplanes, submarines, spacecraft, anything sealed. Failure to do this was infamously the cause of the Apollo 1 disaster, where a pure, high-pressure oxygen atmosphere caused a dramatic fire when some nylon started to overheat.

Can you guess what OceanGate have done?

:marsey#agree:

That's right, they've been injecting pure oxygen into the cabin, with untested electronics on board.

Jesus Christ, guys. You get so many startup CEOs bitching about safety standards, and every now and then when they push the limits, we all get a very public reminder of why they're there in the first place. And it usually costs the lives of people who were tricked into getting onto that stupid butt vehicle in the first place.

!effortposters

310
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

Failure to do this was infamously the cause of the Apollo 1 disaster, where a pure, high-pressure oxygen atmosphere caused a dramatic fire when some nylon started to overheat.

That and, IIRC, the door on Apollo 1 opened inwards, so if there was higher pressure inside than outside, you straight up couldn't open it. Kinda like how old theaters use to have inward-facing exterior doors, before some theater fires finally set people straight and got them caring about safety.

and there's still no means of even rescuing these people even if they're found.

Yeah, they obviously couldn't leave the craft due to pressure. Do we even have (actual, real, military) submarines that go that deep? I thought military submarines were designed to go deep enough to (somewhat) evade detection by the enemy, not to scout the sea floor. I suppose, hypothetically, they could try tugging them back to the surface? But that leads to a bunch of other issues, and besides, at this point you'd really only be dragging up some corpses.

As a side note about steel, steel is so fricking good that it's what SpaceX is using for their new rockets, despite the weight. And that's an application where weight is super important and they figure it's still worth the (weight) cost to use steel. Not using steel in a submarine is just... well it makes no fricking sense.

Anyways great writeup, definitely covers more details than the other threads.

Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

Aaah this entire debacle has been excruciating for me because I know quite a bit about military submarines but can’t say anything about them in comparison because the navy will get my butt. I want the glowies assigned to watch me to commend me for my remarkable dedication to keeping state secrets.

Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

Just post it on the secret rdrama groomercord and no one will ever find out

Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

:marseyfedpostglow:

Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

Even the foids here are schizos

:marseyembrace:

Do you hope a handsome glowie is your personal wrangler?

Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

I hope she wears a tie and has red hair :marseykishibemakima:

Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

Where do sailors go to have gay s*x on a submarine without getting caught??

Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

Yeah, I've never worked on them but a good friend of mine has. I'm sure the stuff he's told me is general enough that it's okay to say but I'm not 100% sure and definitely don't want to get anyone in trouble.

The only thing I'll say is that the safety factor they use is well in excess of 2.25.

Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

Thank you for your cervix :marseysalutenavy:

Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

I’m not in the Gayvy but I did come very close to being a fitter on nuclear aircraft carriers.

Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

And now you provide us with bellaposts instead

:#marseylove:

Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

I'm going to model submarines incorrectly in War Thunder

Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

Do we even have (actual, real, military) submarines that go that deep? I thought military submarines were designed to go deep enough to (somewhat) evade detection by the enemy, not to scout the sea floor. I suppose, hypothetically, they could try tugging them back to the surface? But that leads to a bunch of other issues, and besides, at this point you'd really only be dragging up some corpses.

I think there's some that are able to tap cables on the ocean floor, but IDK if that's comparable depths, marine shit isn't really my area of expertise. I think the USN would probably rather let these people die than reveal if they could reach it though.

Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

Nordstearm wasn't that deep. Also USN could go down and give the pop can a nudge, and swear them to secrecy if they float up.

Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

I don't think so because of engineering reasons. going to Titanic wreckage depths is not practical because it makes comms impossible (unless you trail a shielded cable). anyway, acoustic silence at 200 yards depth seems way more valuable than going super deep because you can get info from satellites. also tapping cables doesn't have to be that deep, lots of mileage available next to the continents

Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

As a side note about steel, steel is so fricking good that it's what SpaceX is using for their new rockets, despite the weight.

only thing that makes sense from a reusability standpoint. even aluminum will fail sooner than later from stress fractures. it's so weird to make a weird composite submarine when every aspect of steel, from the weight to the durability, is ideal for a sub


Putting the :e: in spookie turkey merry new year

Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

If steel is so great, why is the Titanic sitting beside the flattened pop-can of a TitanπŸ€”

Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

Because it rammed headlong into a fricking iceberg.

Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

my heart is telling me actually if they hit it headfirst it would have been fine!

im literally screaming, they scraped along the side of it, ripping open a huge tear in the side of the ship which completely flooded it

Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

Ice(((berg)))

Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

Fact check: mostly false.

While the Titanic did in fact come into contact with an iceberg, it was not "headlong". Additionally, the Titanic sinking is more accurately attributed to a loss of bouyancy.


https://i.rdrama.net/images/17191743323420358.webp

Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

Do we even have (actual, real, military) submarines that go that deep?

Ours? I know a a guy that was on the Sturgeon and their limit is like 1900-2000 ft. But those are nuclear attack subs. Some other ones like the soviet k-278 can hit 4k but those are still a fraction to the depth of where they were.

Submersibles are smaller and can handle the crushing depths (when made with the right materials) better than a larger sub. But they're basically like little capsules. There is so such "rescue" submersible that can transfer people out of a broken one into the rescue one.

They're fricked.

Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

What about Elon’s child sized submarine!

Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

Just gotta get the spooks on the case

https://i.rdrama.net/images/16873872352963774.webp


https://i.rdrama.net/images/1728611539221579.webp

Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

Link copied to clipboard
Action successful!
Error, please refresh the page and try again.