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DODE HR/rDrama Department of Drama Efficiency  10d ago (text post) 815 thread views #345236 earned 408 coins from votes spent 55 currency on pings
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Becoming Catholic. It's harder than you might imagine.

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idk. the rituals are but also aren't actually important.

u don't need to be baptized to keep showing up...

but tbh if u just keep showing up, how can u even fail?

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I don't feel like I would be being honest. Does that make any sense? There's people who are really hardcore and I would feel like I was being dishonest and faking.

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tbh i have no idea if i'll stick around long enough to be baptized, i just went to one mass. i draw personal inspiration from several religions at least, so i certainly wouldn't buy all the rhetoric carte blanche, and would always have this underlying motivation to use the church as a platform for change.

like, i kinda wanna do ayahuasca with the pope, and then many other religious leaders.

!commenters !catholics

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:marseydisagree: Catechism of the Catholic Church:

2291 The use of drugs inflicts very grave damage on human health and life. Their use, except on strictly therapeutic grounds, is a grave offense. Clandestine production of and trafficking in drugs are scandalous practices.

By no means should you feel obliged to turn into a twitter style RadTrad, and I'm thrilled to hear you went to Church and are feeling open to things, but at the same time, draw it back a little, hippie. :marseysmughips: The "change" the Church promotes is repentance (which in the traditional definition of the word doesn't just mean "feel bad for wrongdoing" but means instead a transformation of mental and spiritual attitude towards sin).

I don't feel like I would be being honest. Does that make any sense? There's people who are really hardcore and I would feel like I was being dishonest and faking.

@Redactor0 I'm 2-for-1ing a response here but I'd wager 99% of people who convert or revert to faith, including myself, went through a stage of feeling this way. Feeling self-conscious is normal but nobody is going to be paying attention to if you know what the responses are your first time there or have any judgment for your past. The Church is a field hospital for sinners not a museum for saints. :marseyangel3: As Pope Francis said back in 2013, rather eloquently:

"The thing the church needs most today is the ability to heal wounds and to warm the hearts of the faithful; it needs nearness, proximity. I see the church as a field hospital after battle. It is useless to ask a seriously injured person if he has high cholesterol and about the level of his blood sugars! You have to heal his wounds. Then we can talk about everything else. Heal the wounds, heal the wounds. ... And you have to start from the ground up."

And this goes along with some of what @goderator200 was saying WRT worrying about salvation or fitting in because of past sins.

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Catechism of the Catholic Church:

meh church used to say a ton of stuff it doesn't anymore. being against psychoatives is bit hypocritical when one of jesus miracles is producing wine from water, which is one of the least useful and most harmful of the psychoactives

besides even the catechism mentions:

Their use, except on strictly therapeutic grounds, is a grave offense

seem u can try to consume ayauascha for fun ... but ur gunna get ur shit spiritually pushed in.

taking it for spiritual therapy is the only intentional way to do so, and my god are we way past due for some collectively spiritual healing.

they're just plants my brother. u grow them, u boil them, u drink them, and then u meet ur maker in ways u never could have previously imagined....

usually at least. a few people are more spiritually blocked that others.

but at the same time, draw it back a little, hippie

a) not a hippie, i fit the young urban professional demographic, b) humanity in an existentially dire position far beyond ur current understanding of it.

Church promotes is repentance (which in the traditional definition of the word doesn't just mean "feel bad for wrongdoing" but means instead a transformation of mental and spiritual attitude towards sin).

but of course. the world has lot of repenting to undertake...

Then we can talk about everything else. Heal the wounds, heal the wounds. ... And you have to start from the ground up."

no shit, pope

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meh church used to say a ton of stuff it doesn't anymore.

Moral teachings within the Church have not and cannot change, empirical arguments against prohibition's pros and cons would be licit but using ayahuasca isn't something that will be deemed "not a sin" in the future.

being against psychoatives is bit hypocritical when one of jesus miracles is producing wine from water, which is one of the least useful and most harmful of the psychoactives

The reason drug use is sinful is that being high/drunk deprives us of the capacity for moral reasoning. Microdosing and CBD topical creams, where legal, would be the more appropriate parallel to drinking in moderation. And it's not hypocritical, Jews/Christians have always been against drinking to excess.

a) not a hippie, i fit the young urban professional demographic, b) humanity in an existentially dire position far beyond ur current understanding of it.

If you think taking psychedelics is part of the solution to addressing this, I stand by what I called you, but tone is hard to convey online and I was just trying to rib you. :marseyhippiecrygenocide:

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Moral teachings within the Church have not and cannot change

lol wut? church did a one 180 on homosexuality even tho the bible expressly forbids forms of it in several places.

the bible doesn't even address "illicit substances", such a concept did not exist back then to be addressed. their stance is not well grounded in scripture., so i'm not sure what ground u think it's even standing on.

The reason drug use is sinful is that being high/drunk deprives us of the capacity for moral reasoning

trying to overgeneralized all psychoactives as the same is actually as r-slurred as trying to generalize all medicine as the same

Microdosing

is useful, but does not have the same depth of effect as macrodosing.

i wouldn't think someone like the pope to really need microdosing tbh, it's the macrodose that offers novel perspectives, for someone of that order

If you think taking psychedelics is part of the solution to addressing this,

i'm find myself drowning in a society that has found only abject failure in trying to systematically address and eradicate "sin" via the sober mind, more powerful techniques simply are required or we will remain too mired in such sin to find the clarity for sustainability, let alone divinity

finding divinity is not optional, unless you also consider our survival merely "an option"

#god

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lol wut? church did a one 180 on homosexuality even tho the bible expressly forbids forms of it in several places.

also remember those few decades where any form of worshipping idols was a moral failure and forbidden and then they went back on that bc it was so unpopular and then they FRICKING DID IT AGAIN

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byzantine_Iconoclasm

the idea that the christian faith has never modified its moral teachings is absurd, I'm not the most knowledgeable about christian history but I'm sure there are dozens of other examples like this, and that's even staying squarely within "moral" teachings (ie excluding stuff like how they insisted humans were created by god and not evolution)

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lol wut? church did a one 180 on homosexuality even tho the bible expressly forbids forms of it in several places.

No, it didn't.

Basing itself on sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity, tradition has always declared that homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered. They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.

However, the Church also acknowledges that "[homosexuality's] psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. . . . The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God's will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord's cross the difficulties that they may encounter from their condition.

Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection. (CCC 2357– 2359)

https://www.usccb.org/news/2023/doctrinal-dicastery-explains-how-when-gay-couples-can-be-blessed You can read about it here if you think I'm misinterpreting what occurred: all that "changed" is that priests were advised to be willing to bless two men/women presenting themselves in private requesting it without withholding the blessing on the assumption that they live in sin.

the bible doesn't even address "illicit substances", such a concept did not exist back then to be addressed. their stance is not even well grounded in scripture., so i'm not sure what ground u think it's even standing on.

The Bible has many passages on sobriety and it's very clearly an application of the same principle. Besides, Catholics are not "Bible alone" and never have been. The Church was founded by Christ and is guided by the Holy Spirit. The moral teachings stand as they are: https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?quicksearch=sober&version=RSVCE keyword search for "sober".

i'm find myself drowning in a society that has found only abject failure in trying to systematically address and eradicate "sin" via the sober mind, more powerful techniques simply are required or we will remain too mired in such sin to find the clarity for sustainability

Do you think native cultures with ritualized drug use were free of this? Can you provide examples of hippie communes not falling into debauchery? Why are we pinging !commenters ? Hi @QuadNarca :marseywave2:

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I think if God cared about strags then maybe Jesus would have mentioned once. :marseyshrug:

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drinking in moderation

Also keep in mind that they didn't have 12.5% Franzia Pinot Grigio in those days. Wine was much weaker, probably too little to get drunk unless you were really really trying.

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I'm 2-for-1ing a response here but I'd wager 99% of people who convert or revert to faith, including myself, went through a stage of feeling this way.

Yeah, I think I'll eventually get over it. But I got a lot of stuff to get over first. Right now I feel like I'm a desperate fat chick throwing herself into a relationship she should know won't work. But with God. If that makes any sense.

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it's ok. god still loves you. god loves you because god is god, not because you are you.

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