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Consistent with Pharaoh @Aevann's instructions, all rDrama users must report what they got done last week. Failure to respond will be taken as a resignation.

Please reply to this post with approx. 5 bullets of what you accomplished last week and cc your hole !jannies.

Please do not send any DMs, links, or attachments.

Deadline is this Tuesday at 11:59pmEST.

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I don't feel like I would be being honest. Does that make any sense? There's people who are really hardcore and I would feel like I was being dishonest and faking.

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tbh i have no idea if i'll stick around long enough to be baptized, i just went to one mass. i draw personal inspiration from several religions at least, so i certainly wouldn't buy all the rhetoric carte blanche, and would always have this underlying motivation to use the church as a platform for change.

like, i kinda wanna do ayahuasca with the pope, and then many other religious leaders.

!commenters !catholics

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:marseydisagree: Catechism of the Catholic Church:

2291 The use of drugs inflicts very grave damage on human health and life. Their use, except on strictly therapeutic grounds, is a grave offense. Clandestine production of and trafficking in drugs are scandalous practices.

By no means should you feel obliged to turn into a twitter style RadTrad, and I'm thrilled to hear you went to Church and are feeling open to things, but at the same time, draw it back a little, hippie. :marseysmughips: The "change" the Church promotes is repentance (which in the traditional definition of the word doesn't just mean "feel bad for wrongdoing" but means instead a transformation of mental and spiritual attitude towards sin).

I don't feel like I would be being honest. Does that make any sense? There's people who are really hardcore and I would feel like I was being dishonest and faking.

@Redactor0 I'm 2-for-1ing a response here but I'd wager 99% of people who convert or revert to faith, including myself, went through a stage of feeling this way. Feeling self-conscious is normal but nobody is going to be paying attention to if you know what the responses are your first time there or have any judgment for your past. The Church is a field hospital for sinners not a museum for saints. :marseyangel3: As Pope Francis said back in 2013, rather eloquently:

"The thing the church needs most today is the ability to heal wounds and to warm the hearts of the faithful; it needs nearness, proximity. I see the church as a field hospital after battle. It is useless to ask a seriously injured person if he has high cholesterol and about the level of his blood sugars! You have to heal his wounds. Then we can talk about everything else. Heal the wounds, heal the wounds. ... And you have to start from the ground up."

And this goes along with some of what @goderator200 was saying WRT worrying about salvation or fitting in because of past sins.

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Catechism of the Catholic Church:

meh church used to say a ton of stuff it doesn't anymore. being against psychoatives is bit hypocritical when one of jesus miracles is producing wine from water, which is one of the least useful and most harmful of the psychoactives

besides even the catechism mentions:

Their use, except on strictly therapeutic grounds, is a grave offense

seem u can try to consume ayauascha for fun ... but ur gunna get ur shit spiritually pushed in.

taking it for spiritual therapy is the only intentional way to do so, and my god are we way past due for some collectively spiritual healing.

they're just plants my brother. u grow them, u boil them, u drink them, and then u meet ur maker in ways u never could have previously imagined....

usually at least. a few people are more spiritually blocked that others.

but at the same time, draw it back a little, hippie

a) not a hippie, i fit the young urban professional demographic, b) humanity in an existentially dire position far beyond ur current understanding of it.

Church promotes is repentance (which in the traditional definition of the word doesn't just mean "feel bad for wrongdoing" but means instead a transformation of mental and spiritual attitude towards sin).

but of course. the world has lot of repenting to undertake...

Then we can talk about everything else. Heal the wounds, heal the wounds. ... And you have to start from the ground up."

no shit, pope

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meh church used to say a ton of stuff it doesn't anymore.

Moral teachings within the Church have not and cannot change, empirical arguments against prohibition's pros and cons would be licit but using ayahuasca isn't something that will be deemed "not a sin" in the future.

being against psychoatives is bit hypocritical when one of jesus miracles is producing wine from water, which is one of the least useful and most harmful of the psychoactives

The reason drug use is sinful is that being high/drunk deprives us of the capacity for moral reasoning. Microdosing and CBD topical creams, where legal, would be the more appropriate parallel to drinking in moderation. And it's not hypocritical, Jews/Christians have always been against drinking to excess.

a) not a hippie, i fit the young urban professional demographic, b) humanity in an existentially dire position far beyond ur current understanding of it.

If you think taking psychedelics is part of the solution to addressing this, I stand by what I called you, but tone is hard to convey online and I was just trying to rib you. :marseyhippiecrygenocide:

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Moral teachings within the Church have not and cannot change

lol wut? church did a one 180 on homosexuality even tho the bible expressly forbids forms of it in several places.

the bible doesn't even address "illicit substances", such a concept did not exist back then to be addressed. their stance is not well grounded in scripture., so i'm not sure what ground u think it's even standing on.

The reason drug use is sinful is that being high/drunk deprives us of the capacity for moral reasoning

trying to overgeneralized all psychoactives as the same is actually as r-slurred as trying to generalize all medicine as the same

Microdosing

is useful, but does not have the same depth of effect as macrodosing.

i wouldn't think someone like the pope to really need microdosing tbh, it's the macrodose that offers novel perspectives, for someone of that order

If you think taking psychedelics is part of the solution to addressing this,

i'm find myself drowning in a society that has found only abject failure in trying to systematically address and eradicate "sin" via the sober mind, more powerful techniques simply are required or we will remain too mired in such sin to find the clarity for sustainability, let alone divinity

finding divinity is not optional, unless you also consider our survival merely "an option"

#god

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lol wut? church did a one 180 on homosexuality even tho the bible expressly forbids forms of it in several places.

No, it didn't.

Basing itself on sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity, tradition has always declared that homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered. They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.

However, the Church also acknowledges that "[homosexuality's] psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. . . . The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God's will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord's cross the difficulties that they may encounter from their condition.

Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection. (CCC 2357– 2359)

https://www.usccb.org/news/2023/doctrinal-dicastery-explains-how-when-gay-couples-can-be-blessed You can read about it here if you think I'm misinterpreting what occurred: all that "changed" is that priests were advised to be willing to bless two men/women presenting themselves in private requesting it without withholding the blessing on the assumption that they live in sin.

the bible doesn't even address "illicit substances", such a concept did not exist back then to be addressed. their stance is not even well grounded in scripture., so i'm not sure what ground u think it's even standing on.

The Bible has many passages on sobriety and it's very clearly an application of the same principle. Besides, Catholics are not "Bible alone" and never have been. The Church was founded by Christ and is guided by the Holy Spirit. The moral teachings stand as they are: https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?quicksearch=sober&version=RSVCE keyword search for "sober".

i'm find myself drowning in a society that has found only abject failure in trying to systematically address and eradicate "sin" via the sober mind, more powerful techniques simply are required or we will remain too mired in such sin to find the clarity for sustainability

Do you think native cultures with ritualized drug use were free of this? Can you provide examples of hippie communes not falling into debauchery? Why are we pinging !commenters ? Hi @QuadNarca :marseywave2:

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another thing the church should be pushing is transparency, like full systemic transparency. starting with the church, but then subsequently into the rest of global society. seriously, what does the church have to hide if it really claims to be the premiere agent of god? but honestly the church even with it's flaw, i don't think in really justifying the need, they are the vessel for change, not the reason. it's every other fricking system on earth that needs the divine spotlight of truth and honesty.

if u want talk about a "judgement day" that day will come when we all, every consciousness moral agent on earth, has access to the full and truthful state of society... so we each can judge it for ourselves, to act accordingly. never before in history did we have the ability to create such an informational system, so never before in history was such a "judgement day" possible.

if god is truly indeed in all of us, which church does so profess, then that part deserves access to the whole truth, and nothing but the truth,

so help us god

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There's been steady headway on the transparency/accountability part in the last few decades. What secrets do you think the Church is keeping that need to be revealed?

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Hi, @Nightcrawler. My opinion is that

even if they are a believer, people don't have to submit to the Church's opinion on everything, but they are free to make their own interpretations according to their own moral conscience. Any institution that claims its own conclusions are superior to everything else is bound to become riddled with moral corruption, that is really hard to correct.

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Does it make sense to reject the central truth claims of having been founded by the living God and possessing Divine guidance and still participate? :marseyshrug: Picking and choosing is only logical if you're agnostic/atheist already because there's really no point to be Catholic in the first place if Jesus was not God.

is bound to become riddled with moral corruption, that is really hard to correct

Corruption of the teachings or corruption of the hierarchy? That many priests and bishops have led personally immoral lives is unfortunate and undeniable. Mystery of the faith, for any religion for that matter, why God (or whatever supernatural precursor to the natural universe existed) created the world and humans exactly the way He did.

They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God's will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord's cross the difficulties that they may encounter from their condition.

If I've ever failed to uphold this I sincerely apologize. This time I pinged you because I think you had already commented in this thread right? :marseyblush:

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@goderator200 always pings commenters it's xer gimmick, hecko :marseywave3:


https://i.rdrama.net/images/1739271948y52utXmckBNkwg.webp https://i.rdrama.net/images/1740487396BapOr-T9W_9t1g.webp

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wow, i have a known gimmik!

:m#arseydance:

!commenters

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Hecko. :marseyblush: How are you today?

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I don't read any of your or @goderator200 's longpostbot summoning comments but I'll upmarsey you just so you keep on fighting !upmarseysluts

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I haven't been longpostbotted bc the length comes from quoting Church teaching. :marseysad:

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I upmarsey your summon but the post above is too many words I got lost looking for the upmarsey so :marseysidevote: for them

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I consider the water to wine miracle an indication that God won't hide from you just because you like to party

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all that "changed" is that priests were advised to be willing to bless two men/women presenting themselves in private requesting it without withholding the blessing on the assumption that they live in sin.

their assumption when wedding two men is that they don't ever have s*x?

bc it sounds like what you're saying is "gay marriage is fine but gay s*x is a sin"

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As with the Holy Father's above-mentioned response to the Dubia of two Cardinals, this Declaration remains firm on the traditional doctrine of the Church about marriage, not allowing any type of liturgical rite or blessing similar to a liturgical rite that can create confusion. The value of this document, however, is that it offers a specific and innovative contribution to the pastoral meaning of blessings, permitting a broadening and enrichment of the classical understanding of blessings, which is closely linked to a liturgical perspective. Such theological reflection, based on the pastoral vision of Pope Francis, implies a real development from what has been said about blessings in the Magisterium and the official texts of the Church. This explains why this text has taken on the typology of a "Declaration."

It is precisely in this context that one can understand the possibility of blessing couples in irregular situations and same-s*x couples without officially validating their status or changing in any way the Church's perennial teaching on marriage.

...

5. This is also the understanding of marriage that is offered by the Gospel. For this reason, when it comes to blessings, the Church has the right and the duty to avoid any rite that might contradict this conviction or lead to confusion. Such is also the meaning of the Responsum of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, which states that the Church does not have the power to impart blessings on unions of persons of the same s*x.

6. It should be emphasized that in the Rite of the Sacrament of Marriage, this concerns not just any blessing but a gesture reserved to the ordained minister. In this case, the blessing given by the ordained minister is tied directly to the specific union of a man and a woman, who establish an exclusive and indissoluble covenant by their consent. This fact allows us to highlight the risk of confusing a blessing given to any other union with the Rite that is proper to the Sacrament of Marriage.

https://press.vatican.va/content/salastampa/it/bollettino/pubblico/2023/12/18/0901/01963.html#en

The Vatican has never, and categorically cannot, permit performing a "gay marriage". You can read the document if you want but it's not a blessing of the relationship but of the individuals.

Anyway, this confusion is why many bishops have told Rome they will not start offering them to presumably gay couples. :marseydoomer: The context of all this is that in Germany/Luxembourg/parts of western europe large swathes of the Church are openly heretical and this was part of the ongoing dialogue between those parties. Rome has opted not to seek formal excommunication in hopes that the problem dies off with time rather than initiating a third major schism.

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Can you provide examples of hippie communes not falling into debauchery?

hippies failed because they tried to drop out of society, not realizing u can't just drop out of cancer. it must be confronted and addressed.

Do you think native cultures with ritualized drug use were free of this?

look bro, the ungodly sober mindset of the monotheistic religions has put us on a dogmatically r-slurred path of self-destruction, not the natives or the hippies.

and i don't think psychoactives are the only prerequisite to sustainability, far from it. but they are one of the keystone facets, and without them it will crumble.

our job is quite a bit more difficult than myopic black vs white... there's a whole array of colors we need for that bridge, and missing any one of them can and will mean total annihilation for this species.

monotheistic religions holds one. psychoactives hold another. scientific understanding holds a third. technological prowess holds a fourth. philosophy holds a 5th. etc, this list is non-exhaustive. i don't know how many keys we need.

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I think if God cared about strags then maybe Jesus would have mentioned once. :marseyshrug:

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Jesus took the moral teachings surrounding sexuality and made them stricter. Paul did explicitly mention homosexuality a few times.

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Oh yeah, nobody anymore wants to talk about what he really said. That you can't get divorced and then remarried. :marseyglancing:

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lol wut? church did a one 180 on homosexuality even tho the bible expressly forbids forms of it in several places.

also remember those few decades where any form of worshipping idols was a moral failure and forbidden and then they went back on that bc it was so unpopular and then they FRICKING DID IT AGAIN

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byzantine_Iconoclasm

the idea that the christian faith has never modified its moral teachings is absurd, I'm not the most knowledgeable about christian history but I'm sure there are dozens of other examples like this, and that's even staying squarely within "moral" teachings (ie excluding stuff like how they insisted humans were created by god and not evolution)

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The Papacy remained firmly in support of the use of religious images throughout the period, and the whole episode widened the growing divergence between the Byzantine and Carolingian traditions in what was still a unified European Church, as well as facilitating the reduction or removal of Byzantine political control over parts of the Italian Peninsula.

But, to address your actual point...

the idea that the christian faith has never modified its moral teachings is absurd, I'm not the most knowledgeable about christian history but I'm sure there are dozens of other examples like this, and that's even staying squarely within "moral" teachings (ie excluding stuff like how they insisted humans were created by god and not evolution)

Give me some to respond to and I will! :marseyautism: There's never been a 180 on something deemed morally licit. Closest I'm aware of is the death penalty, and admittedly Pope Francis has used language approaching a 180 where JP2 and Benedict XVI were more careful in their phrasing.

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drinking in moderation

Also keep in mind that they didn't have 12.5% Franzia Pinot Grigio in those days. Wine was much weaker, probably too little to get drunk unless you were really really trying.

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I'm 2-for-1ing a response here but I'd wager 99% of people who convert or revert to faith, including myself, went through a stage of feeling this way.

Yeah, I think I'll eventually get over it. But I got a lot of stuff to get over first. Right now I feel like I'm a desperate fat chick throwing herself into a relationship she should know won't work. But with God. If that makes any sense.

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it's ok. god still loves you. god loves you because god is god, not because you are you.

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