https://x.com/michaeljknowles/status/1899111503992676633
Embarassing, he doesnt even know what utilitarianism is 
Sam Seder tries to pull a Ben Shapiro but gets clapped by some random
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That whole tag-team debating thing is dumb as heck and needs tp stop.
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The point of these videos is that the majority of the viewers tune in agreeing with the person in the middle, and they get 20 underinformed people with opposing views as strawmen. It's not to inspire critical thinking, it's just made to reinforce biases that the viewer already had before watching the video.
That being said, it's such good junk content that I can't hate it in good faith. It's a guilty pleasure
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I mean it shows a lot about our narcissist ecelebs
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It's bad everywhere. Grifters, r-slurs, and narcissists everywhere; right and left.
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the 20 other people only have like a minute to respond and the host talks over them half the time.
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People keep giving it views, I blame them.
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This is the same channel that used to just live off the irl tinder videos. They know the slop that butters their bread, it's more an indictment on the garbage that people want to consume as "discourse" in the modern day
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First he claimed it was about harm reduction.
Then he shifted towards "we as a society has decided certain things via democracy".
Then he said he would not be fine with society deciding democratically to take away rights from trans people.
He made the argument "they were born that way" in an attempt to defend acceptance of homosexuality and then the other guy pointed out that libertarians are likely born that way too, doesn't mean we should accept it.
Peadophilia is something that ideally should be bred out of the population but if we cannot do that (or if the price would be too high) we should still look at finding a cure for it and if that also isn't possible we end up having to resort to even worse options such as giving peadophiles s*x-dolls and animated pornography made to their liking.
https://vintologi.com/threads/about-peadophilia.2673
Then he shifted towards "it's different if there is 2 consenting adults" and then the other guy pointed out that it could be used to justify incest. The "consenting adults" thing is also bad for 2 other reasons, it applies that "consent" should be needed and it also implies that you would need to be adult first which means waiting years with a very strong s*x drive before you can act on your natural biology.
Then there is the issue with leftwing ideology being self defeating and suicidal since it promotes low birth rates among other problems. People like sam seder cannot really defend all those issues so his only option is to constantly be on the offensive to 'win", the same is the case for people like vaush and destiny, they have to 'win' by attacking the person they are debating against since their own ideology being full of flaws and contradictions.
Of course there are plenty of issues with religious fundamentalism too. Religious fundamentalism is not how we build a strong modern society spanning the entire planet, it's backwards and far from ideal in terms of breeding, efficient warfare, expansion of borders, integration of new people into society, etc.
https://vintologi.com/threads/societal-survival-of-the-fittest.979/
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You and everyone you love are not safe.
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Religious fundamentalism isn't even good for high birth rates. Iran, Indonesia, Turkey and Mexico are all highly religious societies with below-replacement fertility rates, among many others. Consult the list and see how many below-replacement countries are highly religious third-world shitholes.
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I mean you could point to european societies declining but thats directly correlated to leftist beliefs
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At least the ex-christian societies (and a few asian ones) managed to get rich during the transition from bottom-heavy to top-heayv age pyramid. Many currently religious societies are below-replacement and still poor, so in their current trajectory they will end up with an aging population while stuck with 10k gdp per capita. Everyone and their dog pretends as if the values they prefer would save the west but declining birth rates are a global phenomenon afflicting wildly different societies and nobody really knows how to stop it.
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I mean though the decline and fall of corrupt civilizations have been showcased in the Bible plenty of times so having a collapse is actually more accurate anyway
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what about Christianity specifically, not just religion? People argue that a strong Christian base was crucial for the European enlightenment, basically due to its eusocial elements. Some European Christian countries are struggling, but you see Mormons and Amish as some of the only white populations that are still exploding.
For Europeans/Anglos in particular, Christianity seems to have had a very positive impact, and its absence can be felt.
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actually the enlightenment was bad T. Carlyle and Nietzsche
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Mormons
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Persecuting gay/trans people doesn't really improve the fertility rate.
Nicolae CeauΘescu had some success with decree 770 but there were plenty of issues there. Merely trying to restrict access to abortion and contraceptives didn't go far enough it seems.
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It's funny because there's an easy point to be made, that religions and societies tend to have similar laws around things like murder and property theft. This leads to asking if religion gives us these moral boundaries, or do we project our own morality on religion? Humans are the most social animal to ever exist, so the idea we all think fairly similarly around these types of things, and our religions reflect that, really turns it more into a "chicken or the egg" type of question. The difference is religion explains this morality as truth, while human socialization moreso seems to be a reflection of our own perceptions.
Idk who this guy is, but he's a pretty shitty "humanist" if he couldn't even think of that.
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It does illustrate how you can get big on youtube while being a total charlatan/fraud as if we didn't already know that.
Makes me wonder if he even believes in what he is promoting or if he is just promoting what makes him popular on youtube.
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To play Devil's advocate he was just saying "label what I just said my belief is whatever you want."
Definitely not built for this style of aggressive debating.
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you mean not built for engaging with the actual r-slurs of our society?
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He literally claimed his belief to be something that is textbook utilitarianism.
If your answer to "is that utilitarianism" isn't an immediate yes then you are straight up a dumbass.
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The guy asked if he was a consequentialist or utilitarian, his response was "call it what you want, I just explained it." Sure, he could have answered with "yes" instead but who cares? His beliefs were communicated succinctly, label doesn't matter that much.
The point of the debate isn't to show that you know the names of ideologies/philosophical concepts its to defend the soundness of your beliefs.
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So is he not a utilitarian when he just said his beliefs are textbook utilitarianism? Or what? I don't see your perspective.
It sounded like he didn't want to say yes because he thought it was some kind of trap.
Which, obviously, is dumb as shit.
It makes him look like he hasn't even really considered the foundational basis for his beliefs at all and like he just made it up on the spot because its something he heard one time.
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Who cares? Who wants to spend all day delineating which boxes your beliefs fit into, instead of discussing the merits of the beliefs. Not interesting.
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You're right who cares, thats why u are 5 ply deep debating the merits of it with me.
Here's a trvth nvke for you:
saying that substance is more interesting than meta is peak pseud. In a post-truth world poisoned by AI there is no difference.
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I didn't say I don't care about whether or not his choice was fine which is what WE'RE debating about. I said "who cares" about labeling your beliefs. It's pointless to ding him for that. Ding him for having r-slurred commie beliefs.
What does AI have to do with whether it's important to label your beliefs?
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Words words words nobody cares bro.
Youre trying to find logical consistency. Im truth nuking you that logic doesn't matter as it doesn't help you win arguments.
Current AI models do not have any logic whatsoever, yet its pretty clear with zero logic its still superior to the vast majority of people in argumentation. Thus, it is very much germane to this discussion.
Think about it and you can figure it out. But if you dont, thats exactly the point and very meta. Good job.
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Yeah you don't need literacy, reason, eloquence, logic, or anything else if you're a stupid BIPOC. Just ignore the subject being discussed and laugh at your opponent's sneakers or something. You've cracked debate.
Yes they do, if you ask it to argue for a position it will try to reason logically, unless you tell it not to. They used to be bad at this but they're pretty great now and continually getting smarter. The main disability of AI right now is lack of memory not lack of ability to reason with logic.
Says who?
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Soyjak physiognomy
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Lol more of the "objective morality is only possible through god and religion nonsense". Then he confuses consenting adults being a nessesary condition with it being a sufficient condition. Then pulling out the democracy alone cant be trusted because of mob rule. Then homos are bad because they cant have kids. This is your brain on religious fundamentalism. Sincerely arguing for a theocracy. !gaytheists get a load of this guy
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The fundamentalist r-slur would have no answer if the same argument was directed toward him. What if tomorrow, God decided that the immoral was moral and vice versa?
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Most apologists squirm if you ask them if god commanding you to shoot up a school is moral, but william laine craig is one of the few that will go, heck yes i would
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Well yeah. If God personally told you to do something then that thing is morally right by definition.
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Would you kill a baby if god told you to?
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reason #320 why not to have a theocracy: they'll kill babies if they think god told them to do it
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Theocracies don't work because people abuse Gods word for their own ends. It would only work if Christ himself came back to rule it. And then on top of that you have schizos who believe God commanded them to do something that he didn't.
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how can you tell the difference between something he actually commanded and something he didnt?
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Wats the sufficient condition then? Not spreading aids?
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So true queen, if you dont spread aids, you can do whatever you want
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Nowhere am I agreeing with the religious fundamentalist perspective.
I'm pointing out that he owned Seder's bussy like a trick picked up on the side of the road.
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Snapshots:
https://x.com/michaeljknowles/status/1899111503992676633:
ghostarchive.org
archive.org
archive.ph (click to archive)
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Considering that even straight up paying people to have kids via pro natalist policies hasn't worked I dont see how gay people not exiting would magically raise the birthrate unless chuds think every strag would just end up getting a beard and raise kids in a loveless and unhappy marriage.
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That's a great point, if only Seder said that
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Who?
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Didnt he just describe incrementalism?
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