A year into their relationship, Jess and Nate got engaged next to the sea. "It was a golden, sandy beach – empty and secluded," says Jess, 26. "It was just us two there, so it was really intimate."

Except that the couple were actually hundreds of miles apart – and they were role-playing their engagement in the video game World of Warcraft.

Nate, 27, was living just outside London – and Jess was in Wales. After meeting briefly at an esports event in Germany in March 2023, the pair developed a long-distance relationship, playing the game together "from the moment we woke up to the moment we went to bed", says Nate.

The couple still play the game daily, even though they've been living together in Manchester since March 2024. And they know other couples who have found their partners through video games: "It's a different way of meeting someone," says Jess. "You both have such a strong mutual love for something already, it's easier to fall in love."

Nate agrees. "I was able to build a lot more of a connection with people I meet in gaming than I ever was able to in a dating app."

A selfie of Nate and Jess on the left, and on the right, a screenshot from World of Warcraft showing Nate proposing with the words, "Will you marry me?"

Nate and Jess (pictured, alongside their virtual engagement), found love online - but not on a dating app

Nate and Jess are not alone. According to some experts, people of their generation are moving away from dating apps and finding love on platforms that were not specifically designed for romance.

And hanging out somewhere online that's instead focused on a shared interest or hobby could allow people to find a partner in a lower-stakes, less pressurised setting than marketing themselves to a gallery of strangers. For some digital-native Gen Zs, it seems, simply doing the things they enjoy can be an alternative to the tyranny of the swipe.

Internet dating at 30 - a turning point?

Since it first appeared with the launch of match.com 30 years ago, online dating has fundamentally altered our relationships. Around 10% of heterosexual people and 24% of LGBT people have met their long-term partner online, according to Pew Research Center.

But evidence suggests that young people are switching off dating apps, with the UK's top 10 seeing a fall of nearly 16%, according to a report published by Ofcom in November 2024. Tinder lost 594,000 users, while Hinge dropped by 131,000, Bumble by 368,000 and Grindr by 11,000, the report said (a Grindr spokesperson said they were "not familiar with this study's source data" and that their UK users "continue to rise year over year").

According to a 2023 Axios study of US college students and other Gen Zers, 79% said they were forgoing regular dating app usage. And in its 2024 Online Nation report, Ofcom said: "Some analysts speculate that for younger people, particularly Gen Z, the novelty of dating apps is wearing off." In a January 2024 letter to shareholders, Match Group Inc - which owns Tinder and Hinge - acknowledged younger people were seeking "a lower pressure, more authentic way to find connections".

"The idea of using a shared interest to meet someone isn't new, but it's been reinvented in this particular moment in time – it signals a desire of Gen Z," says Carolina Bandinelli, an associate professor at Warwick University whose research focuses on the digital technologies of romance.

Getty Images Joggers running in a parkGetty Images

Many younger people are exploring alternatives to dating apps, from gaming to running clubs and other social activities

According to Danait Tesfay, 26, a marketing assistant from London, younger people are looking for alternatives to dating apps, "whether that be gaming or running clubs or extra-curricular clubs, where people are able to meet other like-minded people and eventually foster a romantic connection".

At the same time that membership of some dating apps appears to be in decline, platforms based around common interests are attracting more users. For instance, the fitness app Strava now has 135m users – and its monthly active users grew by 20% last year, according to the company. Other so-called "affinity-based" sites have seen similar growth: Letterboxd, where film fans can share reviews, says its community grew by 50% last year.

Rise of the hobby apps

And just as in the pre-internet age, when couples might have met at a sports club or the cinema, now singletons are able to find each other in their online equivalents.

"People have always bonded over shared interests, but it's been given a digital spin with these online communities," says Luke Brunning, co-director of the Centre for Love, S*x, and Relationships (CLSR) at the University of Leeds.

"It's increasingly difficult to distinguish between behaviour that's on a dating app and dating behaviour on another platform."

Hobby apps are taking on some features of social media, too: in 2023, Strava introduced a messaging feature letting users chat directly. One twenty-something from London explains that her friends use it as a way to flirt with people they fancy, initially by liking a running route they've posted on the platform. Strava says its data shows that one in five of its active Gen Z members has been on a date with someone they met through fitness clubs.

"[Online] fitness communities are becoming big places to find partners," says Nichi Hodgson, the author of The Curious History of Dating. She says a friend of hers met his partner that way, and they're now living together.

The same appears to apply to Letterboxd, too. With users including Chappell Roan and Charli XCX, it's a popular platform for younger people - two-thirds of members in a survey of 5,000 were under 34.

The company says it's aware of several couples meeting through the app, including one who bonded over a shared love of David Fincher's opinion-dividing 2020 drama Mank. "It could be that seeing other people's film tastes reveals an interesting aspect of themselves," says Letterboxd co-founder Matthew Buchanan.

Why the shift?

So what might be driving this? While dating apps initially appeared to offer "the illusion of choice", and a transparent, efficient way to meet partners, the reality for many has often proven to be different. The Pew Research Center found that 46% of dating-app users said their experiences were overall very or somewhat negative.

The recent decline in user numbers might also be a response to the way some apps are structured – in particular, the swipe feature for selecting potential partners, launched by Tinder in 2013 and widely copied.

Its creator, Jonathan Badeen, was partly inspired by studying the 1940s experiments of psychologist BF Skinner, who conditioned hungry pigeons to believe that food delivered randomly into a tray was prompted by their movements.

Getty Images A psychological experiment with pigeons conducted by BF SkinnerGetty Images

Tinder's swipe mechanism was partly inspired by Harvard Professor BF Skinner's psychological experiments with pigeons in order to understand the brain's reward system

Eventually, the swipe mechanism faced a backlash. "Ten years ago, people were enthusiastic and would talk quite openly about what apps they were on," says Ms Hodgson. "Now the Tinder model is dead with many young people – they don't want to swipe any more."

According to Mr Brunning, the gameifying interface of many dating apps is a turn-off. "Intimacy is made simple for you, it's made fun in the short term, but the more you play, the more you feel kind of icky."

The pandemic may have had an impact, too, says Prof Brian Heaphy at the University of Manchester, who has studied dating-app use in and after the lockdowns: "During Covid, dating apps themselves became more like social media – because people couldn't meet up, they were looking for different things."

Although that didn't last after the pandemic, it "gave people a sense that it could be different from just swiping and getting no responses – all the negatives of dating-app culture," says Prof Heaphy.

And in that context, the fact that video games or online communities like Strava or Letterboxd aren't designed for dating can be appealing. By attracting users for a broader range of reasons, there's less pressure on each interaction.

"Those apps aren't offering a commercialised form of romance, so they can seem more authentic," says Prof Heaphy.

The World of Warcraft characters of PurplePixel and Wochi

The humans behind Wochi and PurplePixel (pictured) met while playing World of Warcraft, though they say finding a partner wasn't their original intention

It's a type of connection free from the burden of expectation. A different couple who met on World of Warcraft – and go by the names Wochi and PurplePixel – weren't looking for love. "I definitely didn't go into an online game trying to find a partner," says Wochi.

But although initially in opposing teams, or guilds, their characters started a conversation. "We spent all night talking until the early hours of the morning, and by the end of the night, I'd actually left my guild and joined his guild," says PurplePixel. Within three years, Wochi had quit his job and moved to the UK from Italy to be with her.

According to Ms Hodgson, "While some dating apps can bring out the worst behaviours, these other online spaces can do the opposite, because people are sharing something they enjoy."

Because of these structural elements, she doesn't think the recent decline in numbers is temporary. "It's going to keep happening until dating apps figure out how to put the human aspect back."

New kinds of dating app

The dating apps aren't giving up without a fight, however. Hinge is still "setting up a date every two seconds", according to a spokesperson; Tinder says a relationship starts every three seconds on its platform and that almost 60% of its users are aged 18-30. In fact, the apps appear to be embracing the shift to shared-interest platforms, launching niche alternatives including ones based around fitness, veganism, dog-ownership or even facial hair.

They're also evolving to encourage different kinds of interaction. On Breeze, users who agree to be set up on a date aren't allowed to message each other before they meet; and Jigsaw hides people's faces, only removing pieces to reveal the full photo after a certain amount of interaction.

It means that it's premature to proclaim the death of the dating app, believes Prof Heaphy. "There's now such a diversity of dating apps that the numbers for the biggest ones aren't the key indicator," he says. "It might actually be a similar number to before, in terms of overall membership."

And there's a downside to people going to more general-interest apps looking for love – people might not want to be hit on when they just want to talk about books. Dating apps, at least, are clear about what their purpose is.

What might the future look like?

In an increasingly online world, the solution to improving relationships might not simply be to go offline. Instead, apps that can offer an experience which more closely mirrors the best of IRL interactions, while tapping into the possibilities of digital ones, might also show a way forward.

With the imminent integration of AI into dating apps, we are "right on the cusp of something new", says Mr Brunning. "It's interesting to see if we'll end up with specific apps just for dating, or will we end up with something a bit more fluid?"

He points to platforms in China that are more multi-purpose. "People use them for chat, for community, and conduct business on them – they can also be dating platforms, but they're often not exclusively for that."

In the meantime, the interactions possible in less mediated communities like World of Warcraft could offer more of a chance to connect than conversations initiated by a swipe.

Jess and Nate's in-game engagement on the beach might not have been real, but the couple are hoping to change that soon. "It's a matter of when, really. There are a few things we need to tick off the checklist, and then she'll be getting her ring," says Nate. And there'll still be a gaming element.

"You can role-play getting married," says Jess. "So it could be funny to get all our friends together at some point in the World of Warcraft cathedral, and we could have a marriage ceremony."

Backstory about this effortpost, and probably the first ever rDrama.net film script!

17 days ago, @QueenOfSpades () asked what happened to the /r/Drama-adjacent subleddit /r/JapanCircleJerk (https://rdrama.net/post/308222/a-short-exploration-of-a-spanish/7168164#context), and thus, 17 days ago, I started writing this comment-turned-effortpost-turned Dramakino-turned schizoposting from my head that I want misinformation and rumors to be corrected, but due to a variety of reasons, I did not posted it back then, but now since today is my last day to farm dramacoin, and also since I would really, really appreciate insights, corrections, and addendums from folx who are more familiar with this story, then I will just post it in here anyways.

Anyway, my memory on this is hazy, I miss /r/JapanCirclejerk so much that my brain excludes traumatic memories as a coping mechanism, so since it was banned I have intentionally avoided looking up anything about its history, much like /r/Drama in a certain way , here is what I remember, and what I could piece together as a dramatic story about this historical event in the an(n)als of the Dramastorians, corrections and more information are very appreciated , !effortposters !bookworms !kino could you please give critiques on my writing style and storywriting skills?

TRANIME OPENING THEME OF THIS POST (LISTEN TO IT WHILE READING):

BWC, IN ASSOCIATION WITH LAWLZ PICTURES, PROUDLY PRESENTS:

JAPANCIRCLEJERK VS. THE GIGAPEDO

(I was going to make a more detailed poster but I need to post this ASAP before Homoween ends, and I have no idea which catchy tagline fits the poster of the movie better)

CHAPTER 1: THE FATLUS GUY IS REAL, AND HE IS EVIL

One day, /r/JCJ was doing the average things that it did as the biggest Japan Circlejerk subreddit, it was making fun of a creepy Gaijin guy in Japan, run off the mill stuff!, what they spent years doing on their subreddit that existed since around the early 2010s, for over a decade JCJ made fun of the average gaijin r-slurs in Japan doing average gaijin r-slur things, this happened all the time in almost all of their posts making fun of in-site drama, so what is so special about this case?, well, unbeknownst to the denizens of /r/JapanCirclejerk, this day was the day that would enter in the history of the late-stage Dramasphere on Soyddit.... the cope before the storm.....

JCJ just so happened to have found the biggest goldmine in the history of their subreddit, the redditor that JCJ was making fun of, was the biggest living stereotype of the 2000s-2010s 4chan incel weeaboo neckbeard libertarian loser neurodivergent r-slur creep to have ever existed, he is almost an AI-generated caricature, what happens when you feed AI on outdated 4chan memes and "Otaku" articles from the mid-late 2000s and create a character based on him , basically, the antagonist of this story is a libertarian English teacher on a JET program.... who got into a relationship with one of his underage students

(I do not know her age, perhaps she was 16-17 or so, but she was underage in the eyes of the law, and no, "age of consent is 13 in Japan lol" , this is a redditor myth that gets repeated, the legal age of consent in Japan is de-facto 18 at all prefectural levels), so his JET agency/school eventually noticed that a child in their school is the "girlfriend" of an grown fricking adult teacher, and sought to either have a serious chat with him, or to take legal action/call the police on him.

CHAPTER 2:Nihonjin v. Chomo P. Lolilover

Still not being satisfied with living the ultimate 4chan weeaboo neckbeard isekai fantasy of moving to Japan, having easy and instant access to all weebshit you can think of, getting a real-life UwU kawaii loli gf, and becoming a s*x offender as a foreigner in a country with an extremely strict law system that does not acquits almost anyone, much less foreigners for their crimes, the reddit user (whose username I forgot, so for convenience, shall be named here as Chomo P. Lolilover ), Mr. Lolilover wanted to go far and beyond and explore more Tranime genres now that he lived in glorious Nihon, so after he became a s*x offender who groomed a child that he was supposed to teach good values towards, Mr. Chomo sought to also get into a real-life Ace Attorney courtroom drama anime!

After realizing that, well, he had committed a serious fricking crime, the 400 IQ IRL Anime protagonist did the shining glasses move from Evangelion , and realized that the best way to get out of trouble was to ask for help, ask for help where you say?, of course, the best website on earth where libertarians ask for help! -

reddit.

Chomo-kun fled to the reddit hugbox of smart Gaijin intellectuals on either /r/Japan, or /r/JapanLife, or /r/JET (do not remember which exact sub that was) to ask for assistance for his Ace Attorney case of Nihonjin v. Chomo P. Lolilover, the tard was proudly and without any fricking shame openly admitting on reddit that he is a grown man who is in an illegal relationship with an underage girlfriend in another country, and claiming having no idea as to why the school is fricking angry at him committing a crime, and want his head.

As you can now guess, as it is to be expected from the average English teacher in Asia, Mr. Chomo is not really a bright individual, from committing a serious crime in a foreign country, to publicly admitting it on reddit on the account that he links with his Touhou lolicon and child idol blogs, to thinking that he did nothing wrong, to- HOLD THE FRICK UP what the frick was that?

CHAPTER 3: (no, literally )

Of course, the neighbor got ripped to shred even the tards at either /r/Japan or /r/JapanLife or /r/Jet were fuming and thought that he was a fricking weirdo predator menace that needs to be either arrested or deported before more children get groomed, and their already-not-good Gaijinoid reputation gets stained, as the Gaijincels, above all English teachers, already have a stellar reputation as predators and creeps in Asia, so this libertarian freak needs to be stopped ASAP, before his number of victims grow, local media gets involved in it, and other Gaijinoids start to get hated and labeled as libertarian predators even more than they already have the reputation for.

I remember that the guy had a schizopost-y style to his writing and rhetoric, angrily replying to all negative comments calling him a libertarian freak, and I recall that he even LIKED TO USE RANDOM ALL CAPS TO SCREAM LIKE THIS, and since he replied to literally all comments mentioning him in the thread, the libertarian lolcow later flocked to /r/JapanCirclejerk to defend xhir heckin cute and valid relationship with an irl kawaii anime japanese loli girlfriend UwU from these heckin harasser stalker chuds and discriminatory Japanese law system

Well, since the guy was quite a prolific schizoposter present in other subs, and had a quite old reddit account, JCJannies stumbled upon his older posts to see what else he was sperging about, but they ended up finding out.... the truth..... but not any average kind of truth, no!, Mx. Dramanxut!, this was a form of TRVTH powered by NVCLEAR fission, a TRVTHNVKE, in fact, this was THE most enriched TRVKERALD that would unfortunately, be the demise of /r/JapanCirclejerk

By surfing through his account, /r/JapanCirclejerk found out that not only he is a massive Touhou lolicon fan, with a fricking enormous posting history on Touhou subreddits and an also gigantic collection of Touhou memorabilia in real-life, and also off-site blogs where he talks about his figurine collection and love for Touhou lolis, no.... no!..... the motherlover has an enormous blog dating back to years ago, where he posts pictures of REAL SEXUALIZED CHILDREN from "Japanese Idol" magazines.

Me writing this text from start to finish:

Chapter 4: PERSONAL ARMY REQUEST: ACCEPTED

When his CP "blog" was discovered by JCJ, the sub understandably freaked the frick out at an outspoken libertarian with access to children, who has a gigantic blog where he posts "idol" (i.e. sexualized) photographs of real children, who is openly obsessed with loli shit, and who most importantly, has already got in trouble for grooming an underage girl, so all of the "lulz guyz, look at this funny internet r-slur lolcow lolz!!!" aura around the subreddit immediately ended, but this was unfortunately, the very last time that /r/JapanCirclejerk would type "/uj" on their comments

Through the open and proud r-slur posting his personal information on his CSAM blog, they doxxed him (), apparently contacted JET to immediately take action against him (), and overall just started to non-stop shit on him wherever he went on reddit, which is heckin problematic behavior that is against the reddit inc. terms of conduct, and a violation of redditiquete

Even before the JCJannies started to shit on him, reddit banned their sub for violating their rules on doxxing, and also banned other related subreddits for ban evasion, thank you reddit for making the world a better place, and protecting an outspoken and proud libertarian who has gotten into legal trouble for grooming minors!

Chapter 5: See you, Space Dramanaut

And that was the true story of /r/JapanCirclejerk, yet another extremely funny and informative reddit sub getting banned for them trying to bring a bona-fide open libertarian to justice.

6. Where are xhey now?

I forgot most details of what happened following this, however, I am certain that the libertarian's account is still up, and he is still posting his love for underage Japanese children and lolicon, I do not remember his name, but perhaps KiwiFarms or old Pullpush archives still have the name of his account. !libertarianhunters !ranchers

Also, I made this image in a rush in order for me to be able to farm dcoin before Homoween ends, I forgot to add in some Touhou figurine in Toguro's hand for example

https://github.com/DevrathIyer/ballotproof

Here's the github for their project if any codecels are interested.

Almost as if it isn't actually child safety that they care about

If you could attract a Princess you’d do it.

You can’t.

That’s why your “harem” is made up of low rent prostitutes spat on by society and your sons are all bastards. https://t.co/Q4EYEUU70K

— Megha (@meghaverma_art) February 24, 2025

Unironically agreeing with Tate

SO EVERY TIME THE FAKECELS OF !INCELS REJECT MY APPLICATION I CAN INVITE THEM TO !FAKELARPERCUTE TWINKCELS

TNF, 2 Saturday games (1 and 4:30pm), 7 Sunday early games, 4 afternoon, 1 primetime, and 1MNF game.

Playoff odds via nfl.com (your team is still in the race, right anon?)

Finally for those keeping track, here's a excel spreadsheet I've been using to track gambling wins/losses. Column A has the winner of their matchup (listed in the same order I list them for this thread, B is the gross Payout , C needs to be filled with a 1 if you won that bet, and a 0 if you lost. So it will be easy to track your weekly and seasonal gains/losses. Prior threads: week 1, week 2, week 3, week 4, week 5, week 6, week 7, week 8, week 9, week 10, week 11, week 12, week 13, week 14, week 15

pings: !mensfootball !goomblers !bets @IRREDEEMABLE-KRAMPUS @Freak-Off @Drippo as always if you want to get @'ed and don't want to join those ping groups, just ask. We love our gamblers. @SpudsMackenzie Gamble here if you need more opportunities.

Thursday Night Football is

Enter BetBroncos - 5,400 total betted

Enter BetChargers - 2,200 total betted - WINNER!

closed

The victims included a five-year-old girl, a woman waiting for a bus, and a high school student on her way home from school… Four incidents in one year. https://t.co/vTvNLx0sYQ

— おはよ!まいぶらざー (@OhayoMybrother) January 12, 2025

Today I'm affirming what I have long believed and what three-fourths of the states have ratified:

The 28th Amendment is the law of the land, guaranteeing all Americans equal rights and protections under the law regardless of their sex. pic.twitter.com/oZtS6Q89zG

— President Biden (@POTUS) January 17, 2025

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2025/01/17/statement-from-president-joe-biden-on-the-equal-rights-amendment/

@Vegeta , @Aevann , can you ban this neighbor @Liquid_Bridge and @laguerna. It's obviously ghost. I know you probably don't care tbh, but the first one is pretending to be me and obviously failing, and the second is larping as a groomercord BIPOC.

Forced Unnatural Sex With Wife Not An Offence: High Courthttps://t.co/oBUnPZwtBz pic.twitter.com/tWwuE49Z7j

— NDTV (@ndtv) February 11, 2025

I can't clip it or timestamp youtube movies. Even had to use the console to make a snippet because of the DRM but it starts at 6:10

Yak yak yak... Get a job!

LMAO holy shit

Temporary Protected Status or TPS is a legal mechanism that protects illegals from deportation. According to the gov itself, Homeland Security may designate a foreign country for TPS due to conditions in the country that temporarily prevent the country's nationals from returning safely, or in certain circumstances, where the country is unable to handle the return of its nationals adequately. USCIS may grant TPS to eligible nationals of certain countries (or parts of countries), who are already in the United States.

This is a godsend for illegals from particular shithole countries because it is a literal trump card when it comes to illegal immigration. As long as TPS is extended, the date in which you had to make it to the US to apply for it keeps being rolled down, and with shitholes like Venezuela who remain unsafe given their actual dictator in chief, the prediction was that it would be free from Drumpfs list of targets as they are neither accepting deportees or stable/safe/not committing human rights abuses

TPS as a trump card is legitimately insane and lawcels use it to a ridiculous degree to prevent deportations. Notably, TPS can be used during deportation proceedings to:

>petition the court to close an ongoing deportation case, with or without the support of a prosecutor

>prevent enforcement of an active deportation order

>appeal a deportation order to then close the appeal once you have TPS

Lawcels will effectively sneed at having a large amount of clients be outright unable to avoid deportation now, as will actual beneficiaries. The sneed from beneficiaries is also going to be monumental, because a TPS beneficiary qualifies for:

>protection from deportation

>work permits to work legally

>social security number

>housing benefits and numerous forms of welfare like healthcare, cash, student loans, food stamps...

So wheres the drama? Soon to come about as the news comes out pretty late night about a niche topic. NYT has confirmed they have a copy of a Trump Administration Decision to shut down the latest renewals, meaning Venezuelans will lose their protections in 2 waves, one in April and another in September and face summary deportation unless they beg to be placed in the enormous queue for a deportation hearing. Keep an eye out for sneed sometime between tomorrow and saturday (deadline for DHS Sec to announce if renewed or banned). Once the official announcement is made and this actually hits headlines beyond one outlet, we may get a surge in Dramacoin (or it will all be unintelligible bastardized spanish).

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/01/28/us/politics/trump-tps-venezuelan-immigrants.html

They need to be hexed with 9001 Friedmans.

When Trump pulls this off, and the US is wildly, rich and wealthy again; unlike anything anyone alive has seen in over 100 years, it will be undeniable to even the most radical leftist that Trump's policies have been an overwhelming success for the United States, and he will earn his place on Mount Rushmore and as one of the greatest presidents in American history.

It sounds very reasonable but then some butthole who doesn't believe in Jesus/is a communist shows up.

don't get how it makes us rich. We import something like $3T of goods every year. Even if we somehow collected 100% of that, it wouldn't cover half of our spending

Mandatory spending was $3t in FY24, $2.1t was gibs for the elderly.

A king comes to the rescue explaining that daddy will be reducing waste

How do you not understand that Trump is going to cut all our wasteful spending and shrink the size of the government to historic lows?

If we cut the arms and legs off the old people we have a smaller volume of old people so can pay them less.

For those counting it would also take 12 years with zero spending to pay off the debt.

Or just abolish the IRS/completely strip funding, fire everyone.

This is called impoundment and was the subject of his first impeachment. Congress has the enumerated power to spend not POTUS, POTUS can't just decide he doesn't like what they want to spend on and reverse it.

Literally. Communism is 100% tax, I.e. 100% slave. We're about 50-60% of the way there.

Average effective rate is 16.4% but carry-on.

Don't forget property taxes. I'd like to see property taxes held at a certain rate that will not increase. People need to be able to budget their money without the government randomly raising taxes that could eventually force you out of your home.

Others paying for services for you sounds an awful lot like socialism to me.

We'll replace China as the number 1 exporter in both products AND oil/energy production and exports.

Also, it is as though the jeering lefties are unaware of the first hundred plus years of US history. NO income tax, tariffs galore, and they were a successful country.

I wonder what else lasted approximately a century?

!chuds