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Reported by:
  • BWC : Built for the Blackest Sub-Saharan African BIPOC BBC
65
Marsey the Catgirl SillyTavern AI card release! Full emotion card included

https://www.chub.ai/characters/TouchFluffyTails/marsey-the-catgirl-2f47a299a538

To interact with Marsey you will need to follow the sillytavern setup instructions, you can either use a local model or hook her up to GPT api or something. I don't want to share my IP address but maybe some dramanaut might be able to open a session up for people using this.

https://sillytavernai.com/

https://old.reddit.com/r/SillyTavernAI/

!coomers !codecels

Example chats.

https://i.rdrama.net/images/17134805103139563.webp https://i.rdrama.net/images/17134805112125912.webp https://i.rdrama.net/images/17134805120435102.webp

edit: I am heavily in negative coins now, money pls

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@ULTRAGIGASNEED posted the Twitter version earlier, but didn't fricking explain who these people are :marseyeyeroll:

https://rdrama.net/h/slackernews/post/261225/john-carmack-reveals-himself-to-be

I guess arguing on Twitter wasn't enough. /u/PalmerLuckey wanted to continue on reddit.

https://i.rdrama.net/images/1713146211842228.webp

https://i.rdrama.net/images/17131462113452184.webp

Will he come to rDrama next?

Stolen from sardines :marseyitsover:

https://old.reddit.com/r/SubredditDrama/comments/1c49nh9/billionaire_wunderkind_palmer_luckey_ousted_from/?sort=controversial


I'm torn. Billionaire bothering to argue with the plebs on reddit? He also has an 11 year old reddit account where he posts things like this

https://old.reddit.com/r/NyanNekoSugarGirls/comments/1910ids/we_recreated_the_final_scene_of_nnsg_at_our/?sort=controversial

https://i.redd.it/hqv23zgcn2bc1.png :#marseyyikes:

:#marseydicklet: :#marseysick: :#marseywtf2:

Let people enjoy things :marseyshrug:


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129
EFFORTPOST The Fall of RoosterTeeth :soycrychickengenocide: and Fate of RWBY :marseyjwby: — Meta Effortpost Part 3

The RT subreddit jannies have "temporarily" suspended rule 6. Rule 6 says "6. Do not come here to complain about how "RT is dead"."

@AverageBen10Enjoyer

For the rest of RT's history see my previous effortposts.

Part 1

Part 2


The End of RoosterTeeth :marseygameritsover:


We covered the majority of the reasons why RoosterTeeth eventually went under in the previous post. In this Part 3 I'll wrap up a few points I didn't have room to elaborate on previously before detailing the actual collapse and aftermath. After all there isn't any single climactic scandal or crisis that did them in on its own.

Though the following point did contribute heavily to RWBY's decline.

Animation is Expensive :marseyitsjoever:

https://i.rdrama.net/images/17112370520362878.webp

I'M GENLOCKING!

— Achievement Hunter

RoosterTeeth didn't have an actual animation department back when they hired Monty Oum for RvB. Monty and some of his "apprentices" handled all of the cgi for RvB seasons 8-10, and the first Volume of RWBY couldn't have had more than fifteen people total behind its animation. The success of RWBY is what created the proper Animation Studio, and going forward it would handle the rest of RWBY and RvB along with a few new IPs RoosterTeeth tried to get off the ground. RT's other animated productions include Camp Camp, Nomad of Nowhere, X-Ray and Vav, S*x Swing, and RoosterTeeth Animated Adventures.

The main show of note however is Gen:LOCK. Out of all the post-RWBY properties, Gen:LOCK was RT's biggest hope of recapturing that lightning in a bottle and was easily the most expensive production. Indeed it's been claimed that Gen:LOCK appropriated funds from other animated productions since its creator also just so happened to be head of the animation department :carpmorshu:

As I mentioned in the first thread, Xoomers were some of the first weebs and American anime is their fault :anticarp: Gen:LOCK creator Gray Haddock had originally only done minor voice work when he started with RT. But that made him a professional compared to everyone else involved with developing RWBY, a very indie show in which RT was turning to their animators, HR employees, and podcasters just to fill out the voice acting roles. Gray voiced :marseyromantorchwick: and was popular enough to have the character stick around for three seasons when he was only meant to be in the first episode. When RoosterTeeth formed their proper animation studio in 2014, Gray was made Head of Animation. He was also a writer and assistant director for RWBY.

Gray grew up watching mecha :marseygundam: and cyberpunk :marseysnappyautism: anime and much like Monty Oum he must have decided at a young age that he'd make his own cool thing if ever he got the chance. As CRWBY (production crew of RWBY) began work on Volume 5 and RT decided on what the best big show would be, Gray pitched his idea for RoosterTeeth's very own robot franchise and used his position over the animation department to give his pitch a few advantages over any others. For one thing he could have the artists draw up concept art on demand :marseycracka:

Gray really wanted Gen:LOCK to be a full blown production comparable less to web shows and more towards network television. Not only would the production costs greatly exceed any previous RT animated endeavor. The show also shilled out for actual talent from SAG-AFTRA. Apparently it really started to come together after a concept artist used Michael B. Jordan as a reference for the main character and Gray sent an email to Jordan's agent.

I should note that at the time Jordan was most well known for the 2015 Fantastic Four movie :ravenstarfirelaughing: so this might explain why RT's random robot pitch was taken seriously. But even though he eventually went and did Black Panther :marseyblackpanther: :marseymoney: he still agreed to work on the project, apparently because he's a huge weeb and liked the idea personally. His company Outlier Society Productions even co-produced the show. Other names attached include Maisie Williams (Game of Thrones) Dakota Fanning (Independent movies apparently) Koichi Yamadera (Cowboy Bebop) and David Tennant (Doctor Who)

No, really

https://i.rdrama.net/images/1712667068893624.webp

Work on Gen:LOCK started in ‘17 at which point Gray left CRWBY to work on Volume 5 without finishing his workload or finding a replacement :marseyderp: He also siphoned both funds and animators from other projects while still demanding every show hit their deadlines. It was at this point that RT started bringing on unpaid interns to finish their animation — more details on this in the "Controversies" section of my second RT effort post.

RWBY Volume 6 and Gen:LOCK were produced together through mandatory crunch time and free labor from interns promised a job at RT after 90 days only to be shown the door as soon their contracts expired :marseytroll: Gen:LOCK's development went well into the red and was pushed back to 2019. It's been estimated that both GL and Volume 6 had about a third of their seasons made entirely for free thanks to not paying overtime. People were working up to 80 hours a week, with management offering empty platitudes about the crunch and how they'd resolve it. The planned number of episodes was cut from 12 to 8. RT had a whole pipeline set up with Full Sail Animation to provide them with yet more interns for the meat grinder.

https://i.rdrama.net/images/17127391328043883.webp

Finally Gen:LOCK premieres in January as a FIRST exclusive. The show did moderately well in viewership and reviews. A dedicated fandom formed — probably the third largest RT fandom behind RvB and RWBY if that means anything :marseyshrug: — and the show actually made it to syndication on Cartoon Network's Toonami.

But as such an expensive and time consuming production with Hollywood actors attached, Gen:LOCK broke RoosterTeeth's bank and fell into the trap of needing to be a massive, breakout hit in order to make any kind of profit. Since RWBY made a lot of money as an indie success story, RoosterTeeth had hoped something with more budget would make proportionally more profit.

Gen:LOCK was their animation department's biggest misstep and a significant reason why the decline became terminal. Gen:LOCK was simply too expensive and didn't prove to be worth the investment. None of the other shows were runaway successes either. In the grand scheme RT's animation department only served to drain the company's treasury.

In the wake of the show's release RoosterTeeth's ‘19 Glassdoor scandal broke and soured their reputation along with the myth of their being a great company for animators to get their foot in the door. The RT founders had apparently given Gray Haddock a lot of leeway in animation and were unpleasantly surprised to learn how the department had been handled. He resigned soon after and RT never attempted anything this ambitious again.

https://i.rdrama.net/images/1712669709793658.webp

Gen:LOCK itself wasn't (quite) dead and in October it was announced that Season 2 would initially premiere with HBO Max before becoming available to FIRST members.

But RoosterTeeth simply did not have the capability to make such a show anymore and so HBO was given reins to write and produce while outsourcing the actual animation to the people who did Planet Sheen and Fanboy & Chum Chum. The Ship of Theseus that was season 2 released in November 2021 and, well, I've never heard of anyone who liked it. :marseyreluctant: Modern RWBY may not be great but it at least has an extremely dense fanbase conditioned over years to watch the show uncritically. Gen:LOCK died in its infancy and the few remaining fans mostly just ignore season 2 these days.

https://i.rdrama.net/images/17127431032872436.webp

People are letting their nostalgia blind them as to what RT was at the time of its death: a corporate entity like any else, with widely documented worker-abuse issues. It's a shame that the studio that once pioneered independent animation on the internet became just another cog in the machine that was thrown out after it became useless, but it did it to itself.

/r/RWBYcritics

Speaking of RWBY, this show too became more and more expensive with every season and had probably stopped being profitable by the time RT imploded. Volume 9 supposedly cost over 6.6 million to produce and had to be funded with help from Crunchyroll in exchange for an exclusivity deal.

Looking back it's a quiet miracle the show even lasted nine seasons. There was almost never a time something wasn't wrong with RoosterTeeth's animation department. In brief,

V1: No budget lol. The only reason RWBY is a 3D show/got made at all is because Monty was already used to the animation software and wasn't asking RoosterTeeth to go find a studio.

V2: No major problems, but…

V3: Monty dies :marseyrubyrosegenocide:

V4: Switched to another graphics program entirely. Shane's infamous letter also comes out around this time (detailed in the previous post) He and other Monty loyalists are dismissed from the company.

V5: This is when Gray Haddock began taking resources for Gen:LOCK. The volume also had more episodes than usual.

V6: Gen:LOCK problems continued. The Glassdoor scandal happened for RT. Actor Vic Mignogna :marseyqrowbranwen: was also fired from his role on sexual harassment allegations.

V7: No problems, however…

V8: Covid :marseycovidscare: and the Texas power crisis from Greg Abbot's paraplegic witch magic snow storm :marseyabbott: Also a longer season than normal

V9: Continued production issues from Covid. Made at the same time as the Justice League crossover movies. More RT workplace misconduct. Led to a 2 year hiatus.

V10: Isn't even greenlit. I'm bringing it up because CRWBY claimed in early March that preproduction was done and they were waiting for the go-ahead :ayno:

In retrospect cartoons pushed RoosterTeeth to its limit.

Collapsing Influence and Fading Influencers :marseyzoomerimplosion:

https://i.rdrama.net/images/17128202001630647.webp

REMINDER THESE BIPOCS ARE WORSE AT BUSINESS THAN COLLEGEHUMOR OVER THE PAST FEW YEARS

@KoreanKongKing

In this section we'll discuss the evolution of the podcast half of RoosterTeeth. Many of these changes represented attempts to reverse course on the company's decline or, in the case of some influencers, to get away from the sinking ship.

First I'll bring up the Let's Play family. To clarify, "let's plays" are videos where people would play a video game and, uh... that's it. IIRC they go back to the noughties and predate any real streaming personalities. Let's Play as a proper noun was created by Achievement Hunter as a channel specifically for their relevant let's plays, originally featuring videos from just the main six AH personalities with the videos uploaded to YouTube. As RT grew Let's Play also featured people from Funhaus and other Fullscreen aquired groups like ScrewAttack. Gradually this evolved into a larger network.

https://i.rdrama.net/images/17128181565961206.webp

On May 31, 2017, it was announced that YouTubers JT Machinima, NoahJ456, LazarBeam, and Steven Suptic (now known as Sugar Pine 7) had joined Let's Play, with JT Machinima being the first of which to have merchandise sold through the RT Store. Others to eventually join include Criken2, James Buckley, BedBananas, Tomato Gaming, ChilledChaos, Retro Replay, Castle Super Beast, GaLm, and Tom Fawkes.

Yeah I haven't heard of most of these people either :marseywoozy: There was also Etika though and I remember him entirely through the rDrama gayop :etika: :marseygossipsmug:

As mentioned previously, the evolution of YouTube and changes made to its policies regarding advertising revenue hurt RoosterTeeth over time. Aside from trying to make up for it by expanding on FIRST and their own website, they noticed the Let's Play "family" had always been a consistent source of income and was relatively less affected by YouTube's evolution. They represented numerous personalities and different kinds of content that still appealed to the ever changing algorithm while having a low overhead that RT wasn't entirely responsible for. RT hoped the Let's Play group would keep them relevant no matter how YouTube continued to evolve.

Unfortunately they never succeeded in cultivating the goal of having this many more Achievement Hunters. The partners that were already hemorrhaging continued to do poorly and others simply declined to renew their contracts as soon as they were up. The successful members must have decided there wasn't much to gain from working with RT. Individual influencers certainly didn't appreciate RT's restrictions on their individual streaming. Ultimately the Let's Play family was pointless.

Funhaus used to be really good before they lost their whole cast and replaced them by the same kind of sanctimonious r-slurs that made the rest of roosterteeth unwatchable.

They removed all the edge that made funhouse great. The new cast would call hr if you tried to make them watch vr gay porn.

-- @OutKongged and @w1n5t0n

This is as good a time as any to bring up how RT podcasts and meta gaming content simply lost SOVL over time. The let's play formula Achievement Hunter pioneered requires entertaining people with chemistry. Parasocialmaxxers want to feel like they're watching friends play a game together. RT started sticking random "influencers" in front of the screen in the hopes of hitting it big on the algorithm, never mind that these were random people who didn't know each other and were always talking over each other. Losing more and more of their originals to scandals and retirement and replacing them with culture warrior/"zoomers like this kind of thing right?" types didn't help either.

The comedy that the original g*mer dudebro demographic liked disappeared and RT never grabbed the limited attention spans of youngins :marseywhirlyhat: to replace them.

https://i.rdrama.net/images/17128234017369916.webp

I don't think there were any other major RT events and scandals left to cover so we're gonna start skipping ahead. The following developments are recent enough to overlap with the history of rDrama.net :capyblowkiss: and represent some of the final happenings in the history of the company.

In September '23 it was announced that RT's longrunning Achievement Hunter would no longer produce content. The stated reason for this was the entire AH cast moving onto different creative projects throughout Rooster Teeth -- BlackKrystel and Jack getting more involved at Inside Gaming, Ky working behind the scenes, Lindsay doing voice work and Twitch streams for RWBY V-Tubing, :marseypathetic2: and Geoff and Gavin doing the thing mentioned in a following section. Meanwhile Trevor, Michael, Alfredo, and Joe created an entirely new channel called Dogbark, which premiered its first video in October.

Michael and others apparently felt stifled by the AH name but even the RT community wasn't super enthusiastic and the subreddit left comments like the following,

I wish ya'll the best, and I'll give it a fair shot, but this video doesn't instill confidence guys.


Im gonna be honest this trailer just gave me "We're trying to be Smosh" vibes


"The community has consistently told us they dont like scripted shorts or improv bits and want us to just go back to being 4 to 6 friends playing games together and shooting the shit. So we have decided to move to a new channel that is exclusively scripted shorts and improv bits"

Incredible.


great to see them leaning into their weaknesses

Views were never great.

https://i.rdrama.net/images/1712824875756071.webp

Always Open (aka the finger me podcast)

:marseyitsallsotiresome: DAE vaginas amirite, ladies?

-- @JimieWhales

In December Rt shut down All Good No Worries which was meant to be a network focusing on female fans (And yes :marseytrain:s were involved namely Charlotte from Funhaus) This was also the third and final time the Always Open podcast had been put on pause.

https://i.rdrama.net/images/17127494603251228.webp

In the wake of Achievement Hunter's dissolution Geoff and Gavin started the FrickFace Podcast with Andrew Panton as well as becoming the new hosts of Let's Play. Some have said this was more akin to old AH because it was back to being a group of RT originals playing the games. This was one of the more active groups in RT's final hours.

https://i.rdrama.net/images/17127495263672504.webp

The fact that this was announced 30 minutes before the end of rooster teeth

-- /r/frickfacepod

One of the funnier moments of RT's closing :marseymouse: Ratyboy Adventures is a game that Andrew Panton subjected FrickFace to in a Let's Play video. For whatever reason he then decided to buy the rights to the character and so on March 6th, 2024 it was announced that RatyBoy would become the official mascot of Let's Play.

This, erm, news came out just thirty minutes before it was announced RoosterTeeth as a whole would be shutting down :bruh:

https://i.rdrama.net/images/17128274713774002.webp

Anyway, this is just some noteworthy tidbits from RT's very late history. Remember the true and boring background cause of their collapse was declining ratings and stagnation over time.

The Fall :marseymasterchiefgenocide:

https://i.rdrama.net/images/17128279060202887.webp

RT's cause of death is via shooting themselves in the foot way too much over the years, or death via a million and one papercuts if you prefer. A studio like theirs surviving twenty-one years should be a success story, but they've been treading water for so long it doesn't feel that way, and despite many fans being upset with WBD, for all we know, they only pulled the plug once RT's brain function fully stopped.

-- /r/RWBYcritics

And now we reach the end. :dumstickdancer:

Since it's not a podcast I'll mention in this section that the last RTX convention was held in ‘23. The majority of the event staff was laid off later that year and in December General Manager Jordan Levin announced the cancellation of RTX 2024. He notably cited that the conventions had never been profitable. This was a major red flag to even the staunchest RoosterTeeth fan since the conventions had always been an important way of promoting projects and making deals with other companies.

https://i.rdrama.net/images/17128956114419963.webp

Remember Red vs. Blue, the show that started all of this? RT continued making it over the 10's, even after RWBY became the primary IP and even after Bungie's Halo transitioned over to 343 :marseyhelp: After 18 :marseyspitmoji: seasons it was finally announced in July ‘23 that the longrunning web show, the longest in American history besides maybe Homestar Runner :marseytrogdor: would end with the following season. I'm not sure if this was the result of RT's imminent closure or not but the RvB finale ended up being a movie instead of a full season, Red vs. Blue: Restoration. This is set to premiere in May of this year making it one of the last RT productions.

Most people considered RT's announcement to be a long overdue mercy kill to the Halo series people once watched on their CRT monitors :marseyboomer: But it's fitting in the end that Red vs. Blue lasted as long as RoosterTeeth itself.

https://i.rdrama.net/images/17128980883327746.webp

My favourite quote from the Rooster Teeth subreddit today:

For me personally, Rooster Teeth shutting down feels like the equivalent to an ex-spouse getting killed in an accident.

@AverageBen10Enjoyer

The decision to shut down RoosterTeeth came from Warner Bros Discovery. As far as I know there isn't a specific reason why it was closed down last month other than a simple case of bean counters taking a hard look at the data. Warner Bros itself has been having money issues lately and under the reign of Daddy Zaslav they've been slashing expenses left and right. 2023 saw RoosterTeeth announce that RTX was unprofitable, the end of Achievement Hunter, the end of Red vs. Blue, and the admission RWBY's last two seasons had gone over budget and that the show itself wouldn't have continued without Crunchyroll's support. It's not hard to see why WB didn't let it go on another year.

Everything RT that still exists; Funhaus, Frickface, The RoosterTeeth Podcast (Formerly The Drunk Tank), CRWBY, and whatever else is currently being looked over by WB execs (picture that for a moment :mjlol:) IPs like RWBY and Gen:LOCK are allegedly being shopped around for potential buyers alongside the podcast and gaming networks.

Worth noting that on April 8th it was announced the Roost Podcast Network (not the same as the regular RoosterTeeth Podcast :marseyconfused2:) had been sold by WB to Night, a digital talent management company. I think this represents the first sale of a former RT property.

I'll also clarify that March 6th was only the shut down announcement date and that RT is going to continue operating until early May. This might be because Texas law requires employers to give at least 60 day notices before layoffs actually start. Funhaus and Frickface at least will continue until then and the RvB movie is supposedly still coming out.


Late Stage RWBY :marseyjwby:


https://i.rdrama.net/images/17114088430316064.webp

RT died with a whimper, and RWBY died with a teenage girl committing suicide because she gave up hope and nobody cared about her, which was very prophetic if you ask me. Salem's goal was the world's longest suicide note, which is fitting because that's what happened to RWBY and RT as a whole.

/r/rwbycritics

You may be wondering how RWBY was doing throughout all this? As evidenced by the thread quotes RWBY fans had gotten a little unhinged by the time the show's last volume rolled around. The fandom divide was thoroughly entrenched and people started acting like very soy echoes of dramanauts. RWBY became less a show and more a vector for online antics where the terminally online would fling :crap: at each other and celebrate if anything happened to the other side :marseyreportmaxxer2: Honestly the evolution of the FNDM's "culture" could be its own effortpost but it's also kind of hard to translate for normie comprehension :marseysphinx:

Regarding the civil war, those hardcore fans rabidly loyal to CRWBY — largely represented by showrunners Miles Luna and Kerry Shawcross — are known for having parasocial relationships with crew members not so unlike people who followed specific AH or Funhaus personalities. The writers preferred to interact with them over any unfair and mean spirited critics :marseyindignant: and certain developments like Blake and Yang being together :marseydose: are accused of being bones of appeasement thrown their way for ratings. The most hardcore CRWBY stans outright hate Monty and basically anyone who left the show's development for any reason because they're not seen as part of current RWBY.

The other half are the heckin chud critics — though really it's about one part :chudjakdancing: one part :marseysoylentgrin: and two parts :marseypizzashill: :marseylongpost: but for fantasy waifu slop. These guys haven't liked RWBY in a long time and have been waiting patiently for it to end either out of desire for a reboot or because of pure schadenfreude.

This divide is very serious business :marseyweeb: in places like Reddit i.e. posting regularly in /r/RWBYcritics grants an automatic ban from /r/RWBY :marseyjanny:

https://i.rdrama.net/images/17129283463335636.webp

For those of you mayo scrotes who watch video essays :marseycringe2: one of more infamous RWBY fandom developments came from a critical video by hbomberguy. Idk who he really is honestly :marseyprojectiongenocide: but his three hour video in which he simply points out how disappointing RWBY is/has become set the FNDM on fire and was otherwise good for dramacoin :marseycoin: I don't consider this sort of thing to be news but I'm bringing it up because to this day you can really make RWBY weirdos :marseycopeseethedilate: just by reminding them it exists. Any criticism of CRWBY's precious little baby is not allowed :marseyflagnorthkorea:

Moistcritikal also apparently made a negative comment about RWBY once though I don't think it was a whole video. He's also on the :marseyseven: list

https://i.rdrama.net/images/17124890540531163.webp

As mentioned earlier CRWBY went through a difficult production period post Covid, but though it took almost two extra years and outside funding to make it happen, they finally did finish Volume 9 as of last year alongside the two Justice League movies that Kang really loved and recommends you watch. As Volume 9 finally ended its Crunchyroll exclusivity and premiered on RT just these past few months, CRWBY also announced they'd wrapped up preproduction on Volume 10 (though they do tend to exaggerate how much they've done at any time) and were just waiting for the green light on funding. When this didn't immediately happen, the poor bastards even started appealing directly to the fans at places like RTX for support :marseysmug3:

But with the extra content that's come out since Volume 9, there's also evidence CRWBY could see the writing on the walls and that they were preparing Volume 10 as a possible last season though they'd previously claimed to have a 12 Volume roadmap for the entire story.

They were just one Volume short in the end :itsoverjapanese:

The Fate of RWBY :cardinwinchester:

https://i.rdrama.net/images/1711877105882756.webp

This is the first comment on the first thread I clicked on in rwbycritics:

"It's strange, while my countrymen cheer the beast's fall, I feel a strange melancholy, after all these years, what once was filled with majesty and pride, goes out not with a blaze of glory, but a whimper in the dark."

So that's how they're taking it

@HugeKongson

Obviously RoosterTeeth's shutdown kills RWBY too since this former passion project now costs seven figures a season to produce. The true fate of the IP is entirely in the air though. The legal rights now belong to Warner Bros or one of the other companies under them in the family tree and it remains to be seen what will happen. Meanwhile a spattering of newish RWBY developments have happened since March 6th.

Volume 9's release on RT FIRST still happened as planned. In a rare moment of RT generosity it was announced that all RWBY content would be free on the RoostrTeeth site until closure. (Though this does track with their treatment of FIRST members :marseyfrygenocide:) As it wrapped up CRWBY actually released a slightly extended version of the season's epilogue, albeit it took the form of an unfinished animatic.

This leads into RWBY: Beyond, a four episode "storybook anthology" that will represent the last official CRWBY content and otherwise wrap up RoosterTeeth's tenure with the show. It actually premieres today :marseyfluffy:

Unfortunately all the post RWBY shutdown content looks like this since the budget's gone.

https://i.rdrama.net/images/17124921463523622.webp

But at least there's something since otherwise the below image would be true.

https://i.rdrama.net/images/17101410023934495.webp

Alas the Justice League movies still represent the last properly animated RWBY content ever made by RoosterTeeth.

https://i.rdrama.net/images/17105898471608946.webp

So what will happen to RWBY now? It entirely depends on whether WB finds a buyer or not and whether or not they can agree on a price. Unless some exec decides there's a lot of potential in the RWBY x DC stuff I doubt they'll want to make use of the IP especially since they'd have to find new producers.

Remember Dillon Gu and Shane Newville from earlier? After being banished from RoosterTeeth for violating the CRWBY Covenant they went on to have their own animation studio and make videos like the one above. A lot of the studio's work is obviously RWBY inspired.

Dillon Gu has expressed interest in acquiring RWBY but I doubt they have the money Warner Bros will ask for. I'm still bringing it up because all the nerds are hoping for this so it could be a good source of seethe if it doesn't happen that way. :marseydevil: :marseynerdgenocide:

https://i.rdrama.net/images/17130137835786839.webp

The most likely potential buyer is probably Crunchyroll. RWBY has actually been one of their most popular shows over the years and was fairly popular in Japan for a western series. In fact RWBY was the most watched anime in Japan on Crunchyroll for the 2010's.

For the moment RWBY will remain on Crunchyroll even after the RT website disappears and if nothing else WB will talk to Crunchyroll about renewing that deal or not. It's quite possible Crunchyroll will look into buying the IP though it's not confirmed yet.

https://i.rdrama.net/images/17130141687719364.webp

If no one buys RWBY then it will remain in the hands of Daddy Zaslav :marseysuit: WB is the same company that made a Batgirl and Wile E. Coyote movie and chose not to release them. With the latter WB didn't even negotiate with attempted distributors. They just opened with an unreasonably high offer and refused to respond to counter offers.

So yeah who knows what'll happen to RWBY. I just wanted a fighting game out of it :marseythebloodedgepat:


CLOSING THOUGHTS :@rwbypat:


They are Austin, Texascels who drank California grade wokism but didn't have ANY of the California chuds or safety rails to rein in their bullshit and quickly alienated their fanbase.

@KoreanKongKing


They had frickin huge billboard ads up in the heart of Austin overlooking i35 for the lazer team release- probably some of the most expensive in the city. :marseyspecial:, all of them.

@Konggles


I've only tangentially followed the fall of Roosterteeth as a podcast I listen to was on their network, but in general I deeply hate how what ten years ago was framed as “independent creators can make things” has become so many levels of frickery.

/r/hobbydrama


It's their 20th anniversary this year, and literal no one gives a frick. It's absolutely :marseydeadinside2: that this company that was pretty well loved on the internet and had a big enough fanbase to support a yearly convention has petered out to a corpse that's being puppeted by media corpos. I remember religious watching up to 2015 and leaving when Ray did. It's telling that Ray even gets brought up anymore going on 8 years since his exit. :marseyitsover:

@DiamondKong

I've written three effortposts now so I don't have a lot to say here. Really I'm just waiting to see what happens to RWBY.

It is sad yet interesting to me that RoosterTeeth was in decline for as long as they'd been successful if not longer. No one was surprised to hear they'd be shut down. Most people only reminisced about when they'd been better.

https://old.reddit.com/r/RedvsBlue/comments/3bgfa3/the_blood_gulch_chronicles_versus_the_later/?sort=controversial

If you want more info this hobbydrama post, while a little soy, :soysnoo: is pretty informative especially regarding the podcasts and how YouTube's policy changes harmed RT over time.

And for you ypipo out there here's a YouTube video essay


This account is private

This user has enabled private mode to cloak their posting history.

@ProterozoicBussy

ProterozoicBussy wanted me to quote him so I went to his profile on an alt and saw this and anyway I fulfilled my end of the bargain.

Also if any of you dramanauts have RWBY: Grimm Eclipse on Xbox then HMU I still need the four person achievements before the servers maybe go offline.

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EFFORTPOST Fallout TV show season 1 has dropped, it sucks. Unmarked spoilers inside.

So the show has released, and as expected by anyone with a brain, it sucks. However it seems to have sucked more than anyone could have predicted. This might legitimately darn Bethesda lmao.

First, here is a comment from this thread explaining how they absolutely butchered world building (this show is canon btw):

:marseyannoyed: So, in summary, if I understand correctly, these are the major changes:

- Shady Sands got cratered in 2277

- NCR vertibird downed on the strip

- The Strip barricades are gone

- Vault Tec seemed to have caused the Great War

- The Boneyard is no longer a thing

- Shady Sands is in place of the Boneyard

- NCR Rangers are gone

- Aradesh is no longer the founder of Shady Sands (more speculatory)

- Somehow the Brotherhood seemed to have overran the NCR in 2277

What I can't believe is that they actually retconned the original two Fallout games and that nobody won New Vegas. Even more egregious is the lore change with the BoS-NCR war, which retcons THE ENTIRETY OF F:NV. This has to be a new timeline at this point.

TL:DR is they literally retconned the 3 games they didn't make, and then replaced the factions from those games with very special factions they made from the 2 games they developed themselves. This is like a bad fanfiction lol.

People predicably, are mad. Some seethe:

:marseydeadinside: Jesus. I genuinely can't believe I was actually letting myself be excited for the future of this franchise before this release. Completely retconning the original games is genuinely fricking so sad man.

:marseyconfused: When is it said aradesh is no longer the founder of shady sands?

Also when do we see the ncr vertibird crashed on the strip?

:marseyannoyed: It's never said by Moldaver, but it seems to be implied that she founded Shady Sands in addition to being the remaining NCR leader. This is speculation, and it probably shouldn't be listed as an actual change.

Vertibird: https://i.imgur.com/a/5ygLxmK

https://i.rdrama.net/images/1712816266134328.webp


:marseyconfused: So even though it's been established that Shady Sands is in an entirely different state of the new california Republic from the boneyard, they just slapped it right into los angeles, and then they nuked it, why???

:marseysmug2: What even is a Shady Sands? Has anyone else wondered why they named the first game Fallout 3 by the way? Wacky Bethesda xD

:marseysad2: That's not a nuke crater, that's a "Borg scooped up the settlement" crater. This is dumb.


:purerage: I knee it.

I just knew it.

I prayed it wasnt the case but at any opportunity they had, Bethesda tried to retcon New Vegas and now their efforts... went nuclear.

Hate it. HATE IT. HATE IT.

New Vegas is the Canon version of events. Not some Amazon show.

:angry: I fricking knew Todd would frick it over to create their version of Fallout artificially. I fricking hate it. I was fine with a scenario where the NCR loses in Vegas, but to just extensively rewrite the lore of Fallout 1, 2, and New Vegas to jerk off the BoS even more? Fricking dead to me.

:marseyseethe: Says you, but Bethesda owns the franchise and this is the direction they took. They entirely retconned the fallout games they did not make, and they've succeeded. Next season they'll go and show New Vegas as a dead husk bereft of anything that made it special. Enjoy!

Also, they do not care anymore. They are owned by Microsoft now and exist to make xbox and live games.

:purerage: Look, I am very good at that. My Canon Star Wars are the old Comic books with sea dragons and Jaxxon the green rabbit. I literally ignored anything that came after that.

So I will need to ignore Bethesda to keep the correct Canon? Boo f#₪#^ hoo. They didnt get even a passable game out in the last 12 years!

I walked the Divide for the NCR, I can ignore Bethesda for them as well.


:!marseysad: Haven't watched the show yet as I sail the high seas but this ending sounds very, very annoying. Seems like the show starts off well though but if what I'm seeing here is the case I'll be pretty fricking ticked that they essentially made the West the same as the East in terms of development and that they made NV mean nothing.

:marseyseethe: NV was entirely retconned. The casinos are literally husks and the city is dead. NCR died when Shady Sands (located in the wrong place) was blown up by one guy.

:!marseysad: Christ alive 🤦🏿‍♂️. They should've atleast had some obsidian writers and lorekeepers there to keep things consistent. This is just laziness. I'm not one of those people who thinks Bethesda despises obsidian but like cmon.

:marseyitsover: It's not laziness. It was a deliberate choice.

:marseysad2: Resetting to a status quo of “muh wasteland” absolutely is laziness

:marseygigaretard: Its funny because there is a meme that Bethesda is spite driven because obsidian made a better fallout game than bethesda and the metacritic score 83, 85 thing FNV being retconned is funny knowing the meme


:marseyseethe: I hate it all.

The NCR was written out as a society entirely. The writers I guess just learned about shady sands and went 'oh its the capital so if we blow it up then the NCR will collapse.'

The NCR was such a good faction, it was the only one that actually grew, that had a familiar functioning postwar society. And what did they do? They nuked them out of existence to show off the brotherhood and a dead, empty New Vegas.

Why, why would they do this.. they could have made it right after the nuking not decades after. They pissed all over the legacy of my favourite game.

:marseysmugretard: I blame Lonesome Road and Chris Avellone.

:marseysad2: I can't hold him responsible for this, he had enough sense to know how big the NCR was and how the game world worked. That's why Ulysses wanted to destroy the Long 15 and block them from reaching the Mojave.

:marseydepressed: To me, Fallout stood apart for being a post-post-apocalyptic story. Just nuking the NCR not only strips away one of the most interesting aspects of the setting but does it, to my eyes, entirely unnecessarily. If you wanted to tell a wasteland story, you could have:

  • Set it between Fallout 1 and 2, or even before Fallout 1
  • Set it in one of the vast regions of America that are untouched by the games thus far

But no. Fricking why?

:marseysmug2: I knew this would happen the moment I've heard the name Todd Howard.

:marseyseethe: It really feels like they asked BETHESDA for the lore, and they said 'oh well you got the Brotherhood of Steel who have this big airship and vertibirds and huge machine guns that can only be wielded in power armor.'

then went 'oh there's this group called the NCR, I think they're from shady sands or something, you can blow them up for shock value it'll be fine. There's also this big place called New Vegas you can turn into a dump too who cares lmao.'

:marseydevil: "heh heh heh that'll teach 'em to like obsidian's game more than ours*

:marseysad2: Honestly I am becoming one of those people more and more by the minute, especially if their plans for New Vegas next season are what they seem to be.

:marseypalpatine: somehow palpatine returned


:marseynerd2: So what did house predict then if it was vault tec who dropped the bombs. So Mr house knew the nukes where coming and still couldn't shoot them down or get the plat chip

:marseynerd2: Also it says shady shands fell in 2277 but new vegas is set in 2281 ?

:marseyseethe: I guess NV is just entirely retconned in the show? NV is dead, empty. The only places that exist are a half dozen towns outside of the city itself. The casinos are gutted entirely aside from the Lucky 38 which I guess House lives in still? He would be waking up just as the NCR was probing into NV, Caesar's Legion would be on it's way as well. Big MT is still abducting people.. The Brotherhod wouldn't have lost at Helios One but also now have infinite energy so why would they even care?

The entirity of FNV was fought over a dam, water and power.. Now the BOS has infinite clean and renewable fusion.. the NCR doesn't exist either.

So they're using the facade of 1, 2 and NV as a backdrop for more BoS shenanigans from Bethesda's mainline games.

:marseyrain: Maaaaan

This is what I was afraid of. A good show based in world building that I think is fundamentally uninteresting.

I'm probably just gonna separate it out as its own thing in my head, no matter how canon Todd says it is.

:marseybigbrain: This is what everyone paying attention was afraid of, but they got shot down as alarmist for daring to suggest the brilliant creative minds behind Starfield might provide a shite backdrop for worldbuilding.

:marseyseethe: He was in a meeting to know exactly when it would happen and was wrong.. somehow.

Did he not read the memo?

:marseynerd2: Fallout new vegas mr house :marseygigachad:: I was able to almost accurately predict a nuclear war and I have set the pieces for my rise to power after I come back online

Tv show Mr House :yakub:: Shieeeeeeeet I ain't reading all that I'm just gonna pretend I read this


:marseycope: To everyone saying the NCR is totally collapsed.

I highly doubt it. It seems after Shady Sands was nuked the NCR was a bit scrappy but pulling itself together to keep everything afloat, with the BOS destroying the HQ and the view of the NCR leader using the Cold Fusion to power the entire city at once, it shows the civilians of the NCR are still existing at least throughout the entire ruins in some way.

I imagine next season, we're gonna see the BoS biting way more than it can Chew, and something with New Vegas as well, and with the father constantly mentioning something about "Meeting your Creators." How much you wanna bet Mr House is technically still alive? Just New Vegas went into dormancy??

Im excited to see potentially the NCR Regrouping or like Scrappy NCR rebels, and Desert Rangers in the Mojave. I highly doubt the NCR is done and over with from what we saw.

:marseytears: Whatever your opinions on it, retconning NV out of the timeline (which is exactly what they've done) frickin sucks.

:marseycope: Yeah.. But at least it isn't like a straight full on they don't even exist kind of retcon. Seems more like a soft reboot


:marseywave2: Hello fellow spoiler fiends who went straight to the end and saw the New Vegas tease. Also, from what I gathered skipping around, the MC's father was a Vault Tec guy who nuked Shady Sands because her mother went there and was having a great time (missed a bunch of dialogue skipping through so that might not be right). The Brotherhood has cold fusion now and the guy in charge seems like a peepee so presumably they will butt up against whoever is now in charge of House's technology.


:marseyconfused2: Dude wtf happened to the NCR? Didn't they say they had most of California pretty much colonized? I'm only on episode 4 but complete radio silence while it takes place near the boneyard and dayglow??

:marseydeadinside2: Episode 8 covers it.

It's not pretty.

About 5 years after New Vegas, Lucy's Mom left vault 33 to see if life was back on the surface, taking Lucy and her brother with her, and made her way to Shady Sands, which teleported to LA at some point. Her dad, who was a Vault-Tec executive came after them, stole the kids back, and use Vault-Tec's secret supply of nuclear weapons (The ones they launched to start the great war) to destroy the NCR, as they were a competitor to Vault-Tec.

Also, the ending credits show a destroyed New Vegas, with empty streets full of shattered Secuiritrons and a destroyed NCR Vertibird.


I also wanted to mention this specific comment, because I found it funny:

:hmm: They also technically retconned FO4 since Kellogg mentions the NCR election.


Note that I'm not cherry picking comments here, basically everyone hates this garbage. Of course the critics love it, but the actual Fallout fans think it's terrible.

As one of the comments already mentioned, they really shouldn't have set this in the West Coast. They should have set it somewhere new for numerous reasons:

  • New factions and threats to add a sense of tension and mystery as the viewer wouldn't know anything more than the main character

  • Avoid having to retcon or step on the toes of the games

  • Keep it in a region that is less advanced so you can have your apocalypse fantasy

  • Set the show up as a prequel for Fallout 5, building hype for it even if it's years away.


Expect this thread to be updated as more seethe is posted, this is developing drama. In a few hours we will probably see the hitpieces from journ*lists calling the haters bigots, so keep an eye out for that.

Edit: here are more threads with tons of seethe in them:

https://old.reddit.com/r/Fotv/comments/1bt7fzx/fallout_spoiler_master_thread/?sort=controversial

https://old.reddit.com/r/Fotv/comments/1bt7fzx/fallout_spoiler_master_thread/?sort=controversial

https://old.reddit.com/r/Fallout/comments/1c17tyn/spoilers_about_the_ncr/?sort=controversial

https://old.reddit.com/r/Fallout/comments/1c17mrr/discussion_about_the_ncr_in_the_tv_show/?sort=controversial

:marseycope: dear god this one is maximum cope: https://old.reddit.com/r/Fotv/comments/1c185mn/my_theories_for_season_2_and_possible/?sort=controversial

https://old.reddit.com/r/Fotv/comments/1c15tey/so_does_the_show_take_place_in_an_alternate/?sort=controversial

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How Freedesktop/RedHat harass other projects into submission

https://blog.vaxry.net/articles/2024-fdo-and-redhat

Freedesktop/RedHat's CoC team is worse than you thought

https://blog.vaxry.net/articles/2024-fdo-and-redhat2

Strags respond

https://drewdevault.com/2024/04/09/2024-04-09-FDO-conduct-enforcement.html

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So here's the link to her video. Basically she says became a physicist back in the 90s filled with idealism, says she's against female only scholarships as she got one and :marseypikachu2: her colleagues doubted her suitability due to that. Then she talks about how most of her job (and that of academic physicists in general) is limited to writing useless papers or using PhD and post Doc students to write said papers with your name in order to get more grants while being dissuaded from doing research in the fields you're interested at.

https://old.reddit.com/r/DecodingTheGurus/comments/1bx6od8/sabine_hossenfelder_my_dream_died_and_now_im_here/?sort=controversial

https://old.reddit.com/r/Physics/comments/1bwn5vi/my_dream_died_and_now_im_here/?sort=controversial

The reddit threads :#soysnoo2:

She's already done some sketchy vids in hot topics beyond her expertise.

Her vids about Trans people for example, in which she speaks about ROGD as though it's a real medical phenomenon.

TERFdom is a massive canary in the coalmine for influencers/commentators

At this point it's a great litmus test of guru-dom, whether or not they have an strong opinion on trans issues. It's like a pound shop version of the gurometer.

:#marseytransattentionseeker:

I predict that in the future she will 1.Talk worse about academia and academics 2.Talk more about american politics (fox news stuff) 3.At some point she will start simping for some capitalist

:#marseypearlclutch: :#soycry:

Sabine rapidly descending down the grifter pipeline

:#marseyagreefast:

As long as she's talking about real science and doing it accurately, how is she a grifter? Because she accepts money from sponsors?

Aye, this one not so much! More the ones where she talks about… capitalism? And other topics she doesn't have expertise in

Yeah the capitalism video was quite stupid

:#soyreddit: :#marseycomradecry:

!anticommunists !neolibs

Bonus on her capitalism video

https://old.reddit.com/r/DecodingTheGurus/comments/17tugi5/sabine_hossenfelders_weird_capitalismposting/?sort=controversial

https://old.reddit.com/r/BreadTube/comments/16pdxot/sabine_is_wrong_again_capitalism_wouldve_killed/?sort=controversial

Breadtubers DEBOOOONKING :#soyjakfat:

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Reported by:
  • Sphereserf3232 : Why is Bongland the only English speaking country where “classism” is considered a major problem?

https://www.butterfliesandwheels.org/2024/the-indian-council-of-scotland-steps-up/

https://www.facebook.com/ScotlandFriendsofIndia/

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https://i.rdrama.net/images/17116065466443439.webp

https://i.rdrama.net/images/1711606547272794.webp

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49
why we should :marseynorm: imprison everyone :marseynorm: who sapports Fakestine: a thread :marseystitch:
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Aubrey up 2-0 against the koofi saxophone-screaming cornball.

Not as great as the first song, but I find the idea of drake chastising Kendrick via his idols pretty funny.

https://i.rdrama.net/images/17136157381377027.webp

https://i.rdrama.net/images/17136158376144009.webp

No, you can't use Tupac's image to troll someone?! What would pac say?!

:soycrytalking:

Meanwhile

https://i.rdrama.net/images/17136158377494638.webp

https://i.rdrama.net/images/171361573829892.webp

https://i.rdrama.net/images/1713615738724896.webp

I put AI in the top three worst things to ever happen to rap, right above drill music, and right below ringtones.

Here was the first diss record. It just released 12 hours ago on Spotify and is already charting.

Keep frying these cornballs, king.

Here's the /r/kendricklamar reaction.

https://old.reddit.com/r/KendrickLamar/comments/1c8g5m1/drake_just_posted_an_ai_tupac_diss/?sort=controversial

I'm not reading any of this shit. I've been following this for the last week and the Kendrick fans have me completely drained. They are without a doubt, the most r-slurred reddit-brained group of people you will ever interact with. I can only imagine what dumb shit they're talking about in this thread.

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Japanese indie rock :marseyjamming: :!marseyhappy2: :marseywerebackchingchong:
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92
The 2nd Stage of Colonization of r/Grimdank is underway - behold ye cucks :soywarhammer: :soywarhammer: :soywarhammer:

https://old.reddit.com/r/Grimdank/comments/1c7f33g/i_dont_care_about_the_custodes_but_whether_you/?sort=controversial

There have been gradually more and more SRDine :marseycanned: :marseycanned: type posts on /r/Grimdank, with less memes and more shitlib gloating and preaching to their choir


LGBT trying not to use Slaanesh :marseyslaanesh: :marseyslaanesh: :marseyslaanesh: as proof of historic representation, a literal space-heck demonic manifestation of excess, degeneration and depravity.

https://i.rdrama.net/images/17135135799954345.webp

"Yes but the imperium is EEEEVIL tooooooo" :soywarhammer:

https://i.rdrama.net/images/1713513580141125.webp


Even other moderate liberals find this rapid hyper turbospeed charged circlejerk to be exhausting

https://i.rdrama.net/images/17135135802847672.webp

https://i.rdrama.net/images/17135135805009706.webp

https://i.rdrama.net/images/17135135807345595.webp


https://old.reddit.com/r/Grimdank/comments/1c7f33g/i_dont_care_about_the_custodes_but_whether_you/l07nseh/?context=8&sort=controversial

https://i.rdrama.net/images/17135135808825476.webp

OP is an especially cringe example of a turbo redditor


https://old.reddit.com/r/Grimdank/comments/1c7f33g/i_dont_care_about_the_custodes_but_whether_you/l07zpu1/?context=8&sort=controversial

https://i.rdrama.net/images/17135135810968573.webp

https://i.rdrama.net/images/17135135813060634.webp


https://old.reddit.com/r/Grimdank/comments/1c7f33g/i_dont_care_about_the_custodes_but_whether_you/l07yqwk/?context=8&sort=controversial

https://i.rdrama.net/images/17135135814895947.webp


https://i.rdrama.net/images/17135135817446494.webp


NOW FOR SECTION OF SHAME AND DOWNVOTES:

https://old.reddit.com/r/Grimdank/comments/1c7f33g/i_dont_care_about_the_custodes_but_whether_you/l07tx2g/?context=8&sort=controversial

https://i.rdrama.net/images/17135135818471532.webp

"Not really a good thing that the people who care about the lore are leaving. It only means that such consoomer attitudes will remain and GW is rife with them enough as it is"

"people who realy care about the lore dont complaing about such minor change" :smugtranstwitter: :smugtranstwitter: :smugtranstwitter:

"People who really care about the lore will complain about every single minor change. Its a hobby that rewards those who value attention to detail." :soywarhammer:

https://i.rdrama.net/images/17135135820520103.webp


https://i.rdrama.net/images/17135135822520735.webp

Incel gets downvoted :marseydownvotemad: :marseydownvotemad: :marseydownvotemad: :stoningdownvotes: :stoningdownvotes: :stoningdownvotes:

--

https://old.reddit.com/r/Grimdank/comments/1c7f33g/i_dont_care_about_the_custodes_but_whether_you/l07ix0x/?context=8&sort=controversial

https://i.rdrama.net/images/17135135824435897.webp

"There is gonna be nothing fun left in this world is there" :marseybeanpensive:

https://i.rdrama.net/images/1713513582669066.webp

https://i.rdrama.net/images/17135135828493497.webp

"You are unhinged and evil"

"YOU ARE A LITERAL FASCIST"

https://i.rdrama.net/images/17135135830306194.webp

"That's the price for my labor. It's so high because you're asking in bad faith." :marseyxd: :marseyxd: :marseyxd: Actually funny leftoid


Anyways 1/3 posts on the front page is basically wokes gloating

https://i.rdrama.net/images/17135137851902575.webp

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8
The fear of heck.

Back a few years ago when praying to God, I told him directly that if anyone ends up in heck undeservingly which is a concept that I cannot justify with a just and loving God then I would go there myself, since then I have been exploring the truth about the religion and quite frankly, knowing that I am darned does give me to freedom to actually explore the religion and discover the truth about it free of Church dogma.

This is what Catholics believe, Jesus sacrificed himself for our sins and went down to heck, I don't believe or agree with the concept of Heck and if he did, then it's my duty as a Christian to follow Jesus and do the same.

The Crucifixarion reflects the scapegoat ritual in Leviticus.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harrowing_of_Hell#:~:text=The%20term%20'Harrowing%20of%20Hell,of%20the%20Old%20Testament%20period.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scapegoat#:~:text=In%20the%20Bible%2C%20a%20scapegoat,the%20sins%20of%20the%20community.

In the Bible, a scapegoat is one of a pair of kid goats that is released into the wilderness, taking with it all sins and impurities, while the other is sacrificed. The concept first appears in the Book of Leviticus, in which a goat is designated to be cast into the desert to carry away the sins of the community.

Jesus was the scapegoat.

First you should accept that Lucifer and Satan are two different beings, Satan is presented as having goat horns as symbolism because of the scapegoat ritual.

Isaiah 14:12-17

Revelation 22:16

2 Peter 1:19 the word Lucifer is used to refer to Jesus in the Latin Vulgate.

You shouldn't be afraid of heck. The real heck is living your life with the fear of heck.

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I've been reading some Effective Altruist writings and learned that even if AI had moral goals it could be very dangerous :marseyscared:.

Like imagine an AI whos goal was to maximize the number of mosquito nets given to Africa, sounds great right? :marseyhappy2:

NO! Because the AI would be willing to do anything in order to achieve it's goals it might do something like commit one of the largest acts of fraud in history to get the money for more mosquito nets! :marseyshock:

Hmm... what does this remind me of? :marseylaugh:

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!nooticers :marseypikachu2:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-68831061

The true scale of the number of medical trials using infected blood products on children in the 1970s and 80s has been revealed by documents seen by BBC News.

They reveal a secret world of unsafe clinical testing involving children in the UK, as doctors placed research goals ahead of patients' needs.

They continued for more than 15 years, involved hundreds of people, and infected most with hepatitis C and HIV.

One surviving patient told the BBC he was treated like a "guinea pig".

The trials involved children with blood clotting disorders, when families had often not consented to them taking part. The majority of the children who enrolled are now dead.

Documents also show that doctors in haemophilia centres across the country used blood products, even though they were widely known as likely to be contaminated.

A shortage of blood products in the UK in the 1970s and 80s meant they were imported from the US. High-risk donors such as prisoners and drug addicts provided the plasma for the treatments that were infected with potentially fatal viruses including hepatitis C - which attacks the liver resulting in cirrhosis and cancer - and HIV.

One blood product, known as Factor VIII, was seen to be highly effective for stopping bleeding but also widely known to be contaminated with viruses.

A public inquiry is under way into the scandal. The final report is due in May.

'Guinea pig'

Luke O'Shea-Phillips, 42, has mild haemophilia - a blood clotting disorder that means he bruises and bleeds more easily than most.

He caught the potentially lethal viral infection hepatitis C while being treated at the Middlesex Hospital, in central London, which was administered because of a small cut to his mouth, aged three, in 1985.

Documents seen by the BBC suggest he was deliberately given the blood product - which his doctor knew might have been infected - so he could be enrolled in a clinical trial.

The doctor wanted to find out how likely patients were to catch diseases from a new version of heat-treated Factor VIII. Though he had never been treated for his condition before, Luke was given heat-treated Factor VIII to stop his mouth bleeding.

A letter from Luke's doctor, Samuel Machin, to another expert in haemophilia, was submitted in evidence to the public inquiry into the infected blood scandal.

Writing to Peter Kernoff, at London's Royal Free Hospital, Dr Machin detailed the treatment of Luke and another boy, asking: "I hope they will be suitable for your heat-treated trial."

Months earlier, Dr Kernoff had called on fellow doctors in the field to identify patients suitable for clinical trials. Specifically, he said, they had to be "previously untreated patients", known as "PUPs" in the medical community.

They were also nicknamed "virgin haemophiliacs" - a term written on Luke's medical record by Dr Machin.

"I was a guinea pig in clinical trials that could have killed me," Luke told the BBC. "There is no other way to explain it - my treatment was changed so I could be enrolled in clinical trials. This change in medication gave me a fatal disease - hepatitis C - yet my mother was never even told."

"To the scientific world, it was an incredible benefit being a virgin haemophiliac," he added. "To be a clean petri dish to understand science through, I was without question a part of that."

What is the infected blood scandal?

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Infected Blood Inquiry The letter from Dr Machin reveals the trial Luke was part ofInfected Blood Inquiry

The letter from Dr Machin reveals the trial Luke was part of

In the following years, as the medical trial reached its conclusions, Luke had many blood tests. Doctors said they were monitoring him and, at the time, his mother, Shelagh O'Shea, was grateful.

In their findings, published in 1987, Dr Kernoff and Dr Machin concluded heat treatment had "little or no effect" in reducing the risk of of hepatitis C.

Both Dr Kernoff and Dr Machin are now dead.

Before he died, Dr Machin gave evidence to the public inquiry, when he confirmed that Luke had been recruited to Dr Kernoff's study.

He denied this had been done without Luke's mother's knowledge. "This would have been discussed with his mother, although I acknowledge that standards of consent in the 1980's was quite different to what it is now," Dr Machin said.

However, Mrs O'Shea told the inquiry she as "absolutely not" told about the trial. "With an innocent child of three and a half I would not have considered such an action. I would never ever have allowed my child to be part of a trial - never," she added.

Documents reveal doctors knew Luke had contracted hepatitis C as early as 1993, but he was not told until 1997. One medical record states a positive test result and says: "Have not discussed with patient or family."

Luke is now clear of the infection after successful treatment.

'Laboratory rats'

However, evidence of the clinical trials have raised wider concerns.

"A patient should always be given the best possible treatment and they should always have given informed consent - if those two factors haven't been achieved then a trial would be seen as very problematic," says Professor Emma Cave, Professor of Healthcare Law at Durham University.

Professor Edward Tuddenham, who was a haemophilia doctor at the Royal Free Hospital in the 1980's, confirmed these fears. When asked if he thought ethical standards had been met during clinical trials in the 1980s, he simply answered: "No."

The BBC's investigation has revealed that Dr Machin and Dr Kernoff were among a community of doctors with similar research ambitions.

A specialist school near Alton, in Hampshire, was attended by a large cohort of haemophiliac boys. The school for disabled children had an NHS haemophilia unit on site, so boys who had bleeds could be treated quickly and then return to lessons.

Their doctor, Dr Anthony Aronstam - who has also since died - used his "unique" cohort of boys for extensive clinical trials. One series of experiments considered whether using three to four times more Factor VIII than normally required by a child would help to reduce the number of bleeds he had.

This was preventative treatment, know as prophylaxis, and involved repeated injections with infected Factor VIII products and follow-up blood tests. The high concentrations of infected blood products were administered to the boys without their - or their parents' - consent.

Of the122 pupils attending Treloar's College between 1974-1987, 75 have so far died of HIV and hepatitis C infections.

"Despite knowing the product was riddled with hepatitis, they started a trial that required us to have way more of it than we needed," says Gary Webster, who was unknowingly enrolled.

Ade Goodyear, a pupil at Treloar's from 1980 to 1989, added: "We were treated like lab rats. There was a plethora of studies that we were all enrolled on for the decade we were at the school."

The school where dozens died in NHS blood scandal

Lee Stay Treloar's College in the late 1980sLee Stay

Lord Mayor Treloar College in Holybourne, Hampshire in the late 1980s

Controversially, another trial involved placebo treatments. This meant that some boys, who thought they had been given Factor VIII to prevent bleeds, had in fact been given a saline solution.

"When you think you've been given a treatment, this changes your behaviour," Gary said. "You run more, you play more rough in football. For a haemophiliac, you feel a bit invincible for a short window after a jab. But with a placebo you are just risking your life by changing your behaviour."

He told the BBC he was punished at school if he missed injections. "It would have meant their trials would have been flawed and so we, us kids, were made to toe the line."

Dr Kernoff's pursuit of clinical advancement through research was rigorous, as was his hunt for suitable subjects for trials - PUPs and virgin haemophiliacs - which let to those involved getting young and younger. A four-month-old baby was involved in a trial.

Among his studies was one that compared the infectiousness of another blood plasma product - Cryoprecipitate (Cryo) - to Factor VIII concentrates.

Cryo was used for treating mild blood clotting conditions. It contained the Factor VIII protein, but at lower concentrations and from fewer donors and was therefore thought to be less risky.

Dr Kernoff's search for suitable subjects led him to Mark Stewart, his brother, and his father, who all had very mild cases of von Willebrand's disease - another type of blood clotting disorder. Their usual treatment was cryo.

Mark Stewart Mark and Angus StewartMark Stewart

Mark Stewart (left) believes he will die as a result of the trial he unknowingly took part in, like his brother Angus (right)

As part of his test, Dr Kernoff gave them all Factor VIII concentrates instead.

"Until we were given concentrates it would be once a month you'd have a little nose bleed, and you'd go up and have cryo and that was that." All three contracted hepatitis C.

Mark's brother and father have both died of liver cancer after the infection attacked the organ. Neither were told they had contracted the disease until it was too late for treatment.

"Angry is an understatement," Mark said. "Your dad is in the front carriage, your brother is in the second carriage and you are in the third carriage - so you know what is coming. It won't veer off that track. This is how hep C works. It will get you."

A statement from Treloar's said: "We await the publication of the infected blood inquiry, which we hope will provide our former pupils with the answers they have been waiting for."

The inquiry into the wider infected blood scandal will conclude on 20 May.

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!g*mers !chuds

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!g*mers a game free of bipOcS

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Modern Animation is incredible :marseyexcited:

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