Crazy how that happens
Happy Memorial Day weekend dramatards! I recently stumbled upon some drama happenings within a few aviation related subreddits that has been going on for the past few days. To start off with, I'll list some aviation acronyms/terms that are going to be used in here that some of you may not be familiar with.
CFI - Certified Flight Instructor. A pilot that can train other pilots
LRU - Line Replaceable Unit. A box that interfaces with modern avionics systems and provides info. Can be stuff like speeds, altitudes, GPS, sensor information, etc.
TSO - Technical Standard Order. Minimum performance standards required for parts, required by the Federal Aviation Administration in the US. Usually required for aircraft instruments and avionics.
GA - General Aviation. In reference to small airplanes typically flown by private pilots (not airlines)
DO-### - Documents provided by certifying agencies on how to certify certain components/systems
PFD/MFD - Primary Flight and Multi-function Displays. The screens pilots look at in flight
AHRS - Attitude and Heading Reference System. Describes the airplane's orientation in 3D space
IFR - Instrument Flight Rules. Rules regarding flying through clouds
CFR - Code of Federal Regulations
Our story here starts off with /u/Due_Ad_6457, a CFI who has made a post on /r/avionics 2 days ago about how he wants to learn and design his own avionics systems:
Basically asking where should i start (and dont say avionics technician school please). I can research on my own but was hoping any friendly community members had some advice. Fwiw I’m also interested in building it in rust and dont know much about fpga’s and asics, is an avionics system a type of asic?
I am not a true codecel but isn't Rust somewhat seen as a meme language? Anyways, some commenters begin asking questions or providing insight into the process. For simplicity, I have colored /u/Due_Ad_6457's comments as red.
So you want to design and build from the ground up avionics and autopilot computers and systems? From board level to programming? Is this for a hobby or a business, and what aviation experience do you have? There are a thousand and one things you'll need to know, and if you even want a little help you're gonna have to give a little more backstory. An autopilot is one of the most integrated and connected system in an aircrafts avionics system. I am intrigued about why you're asking, and what you currently know.
Certified flight instructor for 6 years and a self taught developer familiar with rust and low level programming, have never designed circuit boards but yes i would like to start from the ground up and am fascinated with building the next generation of GA avionics (integrate AI, possibly zkp’s as well to prove flight data with something like Cairo-lang), but i know systems programming goes even lower than i’m familiar with. I’d imagine its the same thing as building an ASIC from the ground up. Just a hobby… for now…
I'll be honest I see no purpose for the AI, but you do you. I'm glad you at least know your way around the cockpit, and as for making your own chips you really don't need to get that detailed. With your programming background a much easier thing to do would (and what all of the OEMs are doing) is basically a software driven autopilot. A Raspberry pi could easily handle the data IO for an autopilot and flight director. The hardest part would be interfacing to other systems.
In olden days an autopilot system consisted of an autopilot and flight director as two separate pieces of hardware. The flight director moved the command bars and told the autopilot where to go. The autopilot wnet where it was told and keept the aircraft from falling out of the sky.
Now everything is virtually one box. Take a look at the S-Tex 3100 system or the Garmin GFC. Both are one box systems that do it all. I can almost guarantee that there is a mini computer in there running a version of Linux (or similar) flying the aircraft.
I hope this helps give you an idea on where you could start designing your system. Remember at it's simplist an autopilot takes attitude, altitude, and heading data to keep the aircraft level, and then uses navigation data such as course, heading, and altitude deviation to guide the aircraft where you want it to go.
No purpose for the AI/AGI?! Lol in all seriousness I really appreciate your thought out responses. Very familiar with raspberry pi’s got a 3b+ at home probably a good place to start tinkering Something competitive to Garmin glass cockpits is what im envisioning, basically want to reverse engineer it and add the features i want
He wants to use AI? He thinks he's going to be competitive with Garmin, who are currently the kings of small airplane avionics? I get that it's a new and exciting technology but it still needs a lot of work before it's cut out for true engineering.
I know you said Rust, but… PX4 and PixHawk is an open source project for hardware and software for UAV autopilots, mostly written in c++. Depending on how comfortable you are with large software projects, and what your end goal is, it could be a way to start poking at the various parts of an autopilot system. At a high level, it’s quite different than manned aviation, but the underlying controls work is relatable. And, you can fly things, crash them, and not die, so that’s nice.
I’m team rewrite everything in rust, more secure, ergonomic, and programming languages have evolved from the 90’s so why not take what we’ve learned and use a better language? not super familiar with c++ but definitely sounds like a great OS project so i’ll take a look, appreciate the response sir
Rust will be difficult to safety certify. C and C++ are the staples for safety critical avionics applications.
I understand they’re the staple but rust as a language is more secure and doesnt let you shoot yourself in the foot like c++. It is clearly the new better way of doing embedded programming it just hasn’t caught on industry wide yet
This guy thinks he's going to join the industry with no degree and manage to convince them to change everything to Rust? So this finally gives us our true insight into him: he's . Some users are helpful to our mentally stunted pilot:
avionics technician school teaches you how to install and maintain. If you want to design and build, that would be engineering school. But that isn't the only path.
I would probably start with drones. I think there is plenty DIY in that realm
great point thank you sir
There are certainly a lot of good books on the topic of autopilots and their operation theory (some of which are textbooks for avionics courses) but really the theory isn't too exotic. You can consider an autopilot as a fancied up combination of if/then statements... IF the aircraft pitches up without input, THEN pitch the nose down until the previous static position is met. It does this with the use of sensors (gyros in older aircraft, AHRS units in newer ones) that measure motion and acceleration. IF it senses motion, THEN it sends either digital or analog signals to one or more servos to correct the position. Complex modes like NAV, APPR, IAS etc only act as a modified set of constants that are being provided to the autopilot computer.
If it were me, I'd start with one servo and one (either mechanical or digital) gyro and experiment. When the gyro gimbal tilts up in relation to the spinning rotor, then drive the servo in a set direction. Vice versa if the gyro moves in another direction. That's the basic theory behind it all, then you can start to construct layers of deeper theory and logic into the operation.
I dont mind reading textbooks, I just don’t have any desire to pay someone to tell me to open a textbook and quiz me on it
I’m only focusing on AHRS, gyros are deprecated but if you think gyros are the best way to get started i’d consider.
Are you familiar with FFT fastest fourier transform and FFTW im guessing it uses something like this to optimize adjustments or am i talking nonsense?
Great response btw, really appreciate it
I think AHRS are certainly the best way to do things. Sorry for the miscommunication, I simply meant gyro as a general orientation device, not a full on physical air driven tool, those are ancient and probably hard to find!
I'm afraid that I'm not familiar with FFT or FFTW, but bear in mind that I'm a line and install technician, and when it starts getting to software I only load and understand, I don't build.
However, controversy arises when when people recommend degrees or think that what he wants to do seems crazy.
Aerospace engineering with computer science.
Sorry no, i’m a certified flight instructor thats also a self taught developer, i’ll pass on the degree but appreciate the reply
Well even if you manage to get the information needed for such a task without a degree, you'll never be able to certify or even manufacture anything without it.
Plus universities exist because they teach the high level stuff necessary for tasks like these in a robust and systematic way, creating professional experts. So not getting a degree is a sure way of remaining a hobbyist indefinitely.
Now if you just want to do it as a hobby, I'd start with demo programs within my capability and expand from there to progressively as I'd learn more things.
I can't stress enough that you need a degree in at least aeronautics, even though electrical engineering is more appropriate, if you have even the slightest thought of making something commercially viable.
I actually don’t think this is accurate, “without a degree, you’ll never be able to certify or even manufacture anything”, but feel free to prove me wrong with a source. there are regulations and a path for custom built avionics to get certified in aircrafts and it doesnt matter whether you have a degree or not, However I’d underestand if an FAA cert was required that i dont know about.
Imo a degree gives you a good foundation with outdated information, good enough to get your foot in the door working for someone else, but anyone engineering there own box needs focused attention and discipline to get it done, not necessarily a degree.
SOURCE? SOURCE? DO YOU HAVE A SOURCE?
He continues some more arguing in that thread, stating the following:
I gathered from this post that The majority of users in this subreddit are non programmers, either management guys or avionics technicians (and no uploading a program to a unit is not “programming”), nothing wrong with that but I’m looking for the actual builders and software engineers in this subreddit focused on avionics/Flight systems design who know how to code/engineer these systems and who know what Open Source Software is
This becomes a common defense of his later on, that none of the people he's arguing with are engineers and they don't know any better than him and if he just talked to an engineer they would know what he's talking about
First things first - an autopilot is a flight critical system. That means it will have to go through the highest absolute highest level of testing and approval. You're not building a USB charger or a map light.
You should start by piling up hundreds and hundreds of thousands of dollars, maybe a few million.
After that, you can contract an engineering company with experience and certifications to bring your napkin idea to a fully tested and TSO'd product. Then you can find someone dumb enough to have their aircraft ripped apart, get your box installed, wired up, tested and approved for installation in a single, specific model of aircraft (if you want more model approvals get your wallet out again to install your stuff in every model you want approved, plus testing, plus FAA approvals, labour, parts.)
I hope you realize the time it takes from idea to prototype to testing and certification takes years, thousands of hours of human time and more money then you'll ever earn in a lifetime to go to market. Garmin has deep pockets, thousands of engineers and enough feet in the door at the FAA to get their products approved.
Doing this on your own, with your attitude towards other people here in this thread, won't get anywhere except further in debt.
Who's going to buy your product over the other proven and approved products? I've seen countless products come to market and fail.
Good luck, or whatever. Your attitude stinks. Stay in the cockpit and let the real, certified engineers do the designing.
TL:DR - you don't have enough money to do this on your own. Someone with 18 years experience
I take it you’re not a certified engineer so you’re not really the kinda person im looking for advice from. You’re telling me I can “contact an engineering company”, i want to be the engineering company. “I can get someone stupid enough to rip apart there aircraft”? I’ve got 1 lined up already in the family hangar. I’m well aware that a box needs to get certified in every new plane added, would only like to certify it in a few, the most popular, which i’m quite familiar with as an instructor. Even with your backward way of saying things it was a pretty decent response for a boomer, but most of it was irrelevant and your advice is superficial. Edit: Lol sure as heck not taking your advice on designing critical flight systems seriously after seeing those dope weed posts on your profile 🍁😂
Dude is exactly on point, actually.
Go up a read my last response to my other coment. Easily 5 man years of experienced software development time (that's at least $1.5 million), $100,000+ environmental testing, and we haven't even accounted yet for hardware development, prototypes, test equipment, and other expenses.
Also 18 years experience in avionics software development.
And yes, your attitude sucks towards any comment that is trying to open your eyes to the reality of the situation.
You both sound like you’re in management roles tbh, not actual engineers but pls correct me if im wrong. You guys might know the steps in the certification process having “worked in the industry for 18 years” but I believe neither of you have actually engineered your own box, you just work for someone else who did. Plus software engineering & electrical engineering have come a long way in that time, change your attitudes and consider the fact that you might not know everything there is, share the info you feel like you have to offer and leave the petty insults out when you read a reply that you disagree with. l’ll take the information you shared in the other comment and leave you to your scrolling
Change your attitude and consider the fact that you know nothing about avionics development, and stop trying to insult everyone that actually does know something about it.
keyword something could’ve found out all that with an hour of research, don’t pretend like your advice is invaluable, its superficial. Thanks anyways
You're so petulant, it funny.
Let me know when you get that approval letter from the FAA.
l might no nothing about avionics development but i do know something about software development, which is what we’re talking about here. You realize you wouldn’t have a job if it weren’t for us. I also know a thing or 2 about flying and the FAA. Don’t be offended when i say your management experience isnt the same and that i’m taking your advice with a grain of salt.
Enter /u/drake_chance (yellow). He becomes the first of our CFI's biggest enemies.
"pass on the degree" this guy is a troll.
degree gives you nothing more than a good foundation with outdated information for 80-100grand of student loans lmbo, i’ll stay discipled and do my own research thank you very much
Stay humble King
you’re the one calling me a troll from behind a screen lmbo
[HIS ACTUAL NAME] - Owner of Avionics Works. I am not hiding, you are being un realistic asking for advice and then pooping on people who offer it.
Wasnt pooping on anybody, simply responding honestly. Got plenty of good advice from good samaritans, ignoring the trolls. Never heard of you or your startup so unless you work at garmin humble yourself anon and keep working on your startup in silence
The next day, our hero posts once again on /r/avionics with a new question:
The G1000 acts as a brain and pulls data from the LRU’s (line replaceable units) like your AHRS and ADS to name a few. Theres obviously some way these LRU’s communicate with the EFD and I’m curious if that API is available. Are these LRU’s black boxes or does anyone know if you can build on top of them?
Again, a few people give reasonable responses to OP:
Avionics LRUs don't really use APIs. They use standards/data protocols via buses i.e. ARINC 429, 1553, RS-232, RS-422, IEEE 488. I doubt you'll be able to find what software Garmin builds their equipment with unless you work for them. Though you'll be able to find some info on the standards/buy it. You definitely could build LRUs that integrate with the same protocols but, imo, it would not be worth the time or money to do so. Everything's basically been "figured out ", all MFDs/PFDs, HUDs/PDUs, flight control computers, radios, amplifiers, etc. despite having different manufacturers and slightly different operation and execution methods (different internals, procedures, etc.) all work pretty much the fricking same, pardon my language, in their respective categories. Cheers and good luck, curious to see other perspectives.
Great reply, I dont want to build the LRU’s i want to build the brain 🧠(EFD/MFD/PFD)it’d be easier if i could use LRU’s for data, because like you said, I’m sure they’ve been figured out/standardized by now and that they’re all basically the same.
I figure theres probably a license to access it. Not familiar with any of those lower level systems data protocols so I’ll do my dd thank you. Would you say these 5 protocols are the standard way the majority of LRU buses are built to communicate with the head. Do you think its possible to build your own bus using these data protocols to decode the relevant data? Would be fetch to hack something together that does just that
EFDs/MFDs/PFDs, etc. are LRUs themselves. There are some open source systems out there iirc from companies like L3 & Top Aces but despite being open source, they seem to be quite tight-lipped (for obvious reasons imo). There could be some licenses or certs being offered but you'd probably have to contact the standard maker/owner itself. Sorry can't provide more info, not really on the dev or integration side of things, cheers & good luck!
EDIT: Didn't read everything. I mean, in theory, you could build your own bus if you had all of the wiring, couplers, tech data, etc., I do know there is some sort of converter out there, think its called MACC II. If I'm not mistaken, ARINC 429 & RS-232 are some of the most common, I just listed some of the ones I'm familiar with/of the top of my head. It really depends on the individual aircraft & equipment, but most of them are similar (work on hexadecimals/bits/words, etc.), I'm most familiar with 1553 as that's the main one in the test equipment, avionics, & aircraft that I work on.
God i hope all that changes in the next 5-10 years with Zero Knowledge proofs and blockchains. From what i’ve seen and know is coming, Software Engineers will be able to prove software in a way that allows for royalties to be paid by anyone building/iterating on top of the underlying system. Maybe this breaks at hardware components but who knows. Would love to see the rate of iteration increase across the industries.
Its sad to see the Aviation industry lag so far behind. Who the hells running that ship.
Our OP continues some discussion in that thread about the blockchain and Open Source and corporate greed and intellectual property and blah blah blah. He's clearly the hero that is going to fix software in the aviation industry.
darn sounds like all this shit needs to be made open source from the ground up, where do i sign up.
FAA should inevitably be replaced by a DAO or at least something more decentralized in 10 years along with every other overpaid, underperforming, government agency in ameriKKKa. Provable permissionless, distributed democratic systems, with open data availability, are the future. fwiw.
what the frick does any of this mean
Anyways, our first villain returns in this post
I don't know the answer to this, but if it were possible, it would likely void the TSO/STC/certification, and therefor your C of A would no longer be in force.
that males perfect sense but im curious if you could build on top of these units. It’d be a fetch idea to make these certified hardware interfaces open source and composable for faster iterations. it seems like its all a black box and everyone whos interested needs to start from scratch or maybe you need a license to access it? Appreciate the reply
Short answer, on a part 23 or car 3 certified airplane, not easily. On an experimental home built cert, knock yourself out.
Try not to die.
I’m aware of the regs
Certified flight instructor 6 years, you do realize planes don’t fall out of the sky without avionics right? You probably think they power the spark plugs too.
If you are a CFI, you probably should have the skillset to look up this information. Also, as a CFI, you should understand the danger of inducing spatial D from partial panel, especially if it isn't an immediately recognized failure mode.
But, my last line, wasn't meant as some kind of attack, Im just saying that there are dangers to what you are proposing. There are lots of good reasons for the TSOs and DOs to be as onerous as they are. I would be very interested in an open architecture for more things in aviation, but every company seems to think the only way to make money is to do everything the same way the last 10 companies that went bankrupt did.
Seriously, good luck, try not to die, this is an unforgiving business.
Yes and i also know you can’t fly IFR with an experimental aircraft in the first place so partial panel flying is irrelevant in the scenario. Also thats what backup gyros are for. I teach safe flying in light aircraft for a living and tinker in software engineering for fun and as a hobby. Appreciate the response.
Obviously i can look up the information on my own, wanted to ask the good citizens of reddit what they know first. Nothing wrong with that
Try reading the regs for required equipment (91.205) and show me where it says you can't fly IFR in an experimental. You are always asking stupid fricking questions here and then being aggressively peepeeish to the people that respond using the fact that you are supposedly a CFI as your justification.
Ok NAME, “Owner of Aircraft Avionics Work”, can’t even find your startups website online. Just your dumb face on Linkedin. You’re clearly not familiar with the regs like i am, your aircraft has to be certified ifr to fly in the clouds but i get u wouldnt know that with your skillset. Anyways, use common sense, who in there right mind would fly an experimental avionics unit in the clouds (if it were even allowed) without backup gyros, a safety pilot, and obviously it should be tested in vfr conditions under the hood first, your point is irrelevant, go troll someone else
Love pooping on guys like you in this subreddit who think they know better than the software and systems engineers or even pilots. this subreddit needs a cleans 🧼 go join technicians subreddit or the paper pushers subreddit, you’re clearly not an engineer/pilot you bum so stay in the shadows.
EDIT: down vote me all you want doesnt mean a thing unless you prove me wrong.
Fun fact: our CFI, clearly the most intelligent software engineer out there, is also the most intelligent CFI out there, as experimental aircraft can fly IFR provided they have the appropriate equipment!
At some point, someone who has been reading this makes a joke post mocking our dear CFI in /r/shittyaskflying, a shitposting subreddit for pilots and where I first stumble upon this goldmine of drama:
Don't even respond unless your a REAL engineer
Background: 25M bored with my 69th year as CFI, so I just taught myself electrical and computer engineering during my student's ground school.
I want to design my own LRU from the ground up. Problem is, I'm too smart to do the work myself. So....I'll just copy off of Garmin. I'll let ChatGPT sort out all of the legal details when I add a new blockchain, 5G, water-cooled EFD. That'll make all of you BOOMERS cry :,,,(
Mr. CFI is clearly pissed and responds to this post, and along enters our CFI's second villain, user /u/Mech_145 (green)
I see you pulled out the backup account for this post NAME loser cant stop thinking about me since i shit on him in /r/avionics and realizes he can’t prove any of my points wrong, dudes a fricking bum mad his startup is failing https://old.reddit.com/r/avionics/comments/13sqhyc/can_you_build_on_top_certified_lrus/
Man I read some of your comments on that post, you’re just as dense as the guy asking to get rid of pitot/static systems
Ok npc, lmk what you do for a living before you try to advise me or give me your opinion.
There’s a reason homeboy has been a CFI for 69 years
Theres a reason homeboy still works for someone maintaining legacy code XD
Edit: nvm homeboy just a mechanic.
You do realize that chatGPT and AI are just spitting out stuff that’s already been created/written just in different ways, so in a round about way it would still be legacy code
you realize you’re a mechanic that doesnt know shit about engineering? Go tighten a bolt or something and get out of my replies. Pretend like you know something about AI/AGI somewhere else
And a CFI doesn’t know shit about designing avionics systems, so lick my sweaty taint bud.
The ppl that actually use avionics in flight don’t know anything about designing avionics?? ever heard the saying know your customer? You look braindead.
I’m more of an engineer than you are you fat old man. You’re expendable.
So are you. And the end user is often very unaware of how things work, they know speed tape go up/down. Lights blink on/off, buttons click/click
I’m done talking to a mechanic pretending to be an engineer, be better.
I never pretended to be an engineer you dumbgirl peepee
clearly stated i didnt want to hear from your loser butt then.
Well it’s the internet and this isn’t your post so go back to your moms basement
This moron really fricking thinks because he uses avionics that he clearly knows everything about them
/u/Mech_145 and a few other users enter OP's original post and make fun of him there:
I would bet on it that actual engineers (esp those at Garmin/King/Avidyne/Honeywell) that see this will start inside jokes about this thread.
Sorry your life as a mechanic sucks “mech_145” and you feel the need to project your issues onto others. I’m looking for the engineers, just scroll past next time.
I have no issues, you just sound like a middle schooler.
25m, You have nothing to add to this post, channel this energy into turning your career around bum. Your kids wont ever have shit cuz daddy couldnt make something out of his life.
Says the kid still stuck as a CFI, what are your kids going to say when they find out daddy blew his chances to be a big bad airline captain and spent all their college funds on “developing” avionics
Lol i’ll go do that whenever i want, actually want to do more with my life than be a glorified bus driver or a mechanic like your loser ass
Those that cant build. Fix or Maintain. and thats why you get paid shit, literally a kid could do your job and you know it
This has now died down for the most part but CFI is still occassionally arguing with people throughout posts as of today. There are a few threads I did not include because it just would get too long. To finish this post off, every person arguing with him is correct on the difficulties and complexities of modern avionics systems. /u/Due_Ad_6457 is either an incredible troll or one of the most r-slurred pilots I have ever seen. I'm 99% confident it's the second option.
The case is Mata v. Avianca, Inc. involving Mata suffering a knee injury when struck by an airplane drinks cart of an airline that subsequently entered and left bankruptcy, its details are not important.
Here is where the trouble starts as plaintiff's counsel Peter LoDuca opposes a motion to dismiss. There are some very well-formed citations like "Shaboon v. Egyptair, 2013 IL App (1st) 111279-U (Ill. App. Ct. 2013)" and "Varghese v. China Southern Airlines Co. Ltd., 925 F.3d 1339 (11th Cir. 2019)".
Defendant attempts to find these cases to write a response:
Plaintiff cites to “Varghese v. China Southern Airlines Co., Ltd., 925 F.3d 1339 (11th Cir. 2019).” The undersigned has not been able to locate this case by caption or citation, nor any case bearing any resemblance to it. Plaintiff offers lengthy quotations purportedly from the “Varghese” case [...] The undersigned has not been able to locate this quotation, nor anything like it any case. The quotation purports to cite to “Zicherman v. Korean Air Lines Co., Ltd., 516 F.3d 1237, 1254 (11th Cir. 2008).” The undersigned has not been able to locate this case; although there was a Supreme Court case captioned Zicherman v. Korean Air Lines Co., Ltd., that case was decided in 1996, it originated in the Southern District of New York and was appealed to the Second Circuit, and it did not address the limitations period set forth in the Warsaw Convention. 516 U.S. 217 (1996).
The Court orders plaintiff's counsel LoDuca to submit copies of these cases.
LoDuca sends in some cases, noting that some of the cases seem to be incomplete copies. Also notice this filing was notarized by one Steven Schwartz, with an incorrect date. Purported cases are attached like the Varghese and Shaboon decisions.
Defense "respectfully submits that the authenticity of many of these cases is questionable".
Now the Court is pissed and LoDuca is up for sanctions for citing/submitting false cases:
The Court is presented with an unprecedented circumstance. A submission filed by plaintiff’s counsel in opposition to a motion to dismiss is replete with citations to non-existent cases. (ECF 21.) When the circumstance was called to the Court’s attention by opposing counsel (ECF 24), the Court issued Orders requiring plaintiff’s counsel to provide an affidavit annexing copies of certain judicial opinions of courts of record cited in his submission, and he has complied. (ECF 25, 27, 29.) Six of the submitted cases appear to be bogus judicial decisions with bogus quotes and bogus internal citations. Set forth below is an Order to show cause why plaintiff’s counsel ought not be sanctioned.
- LoDuca responds that it wasn't actually him doing all this work, it was Steven Schwartz. Schwartz:
the citations and opinions in question were provided by Chat GPT which also provided its legal source and assured the reliability of its content. Excerpts from the queries presented and responses provided are attached hereto.
- Now the Court is more pissed and LoDuca, Schwartz, and their whole firm are up for sanctions for citing/submitting false cases and fraudulent notarization.
In conclusion I hope this was a bullshit suit because if this guy Mata had a serious complaint I don't think he's seeing any justice anytime soon
- PEEGROYPERSLOP : vidya
so, a week ago @Cathedral made this thread about some gayass drama about the game known as War Thunder. specifically it was about changes made to the games economy, summa summarum it would have made the game more grindy, this the g*mers did not appreciate in the least, and backlash on the game's subreddit was immediate as was documented in @Cathedral's thread. this is going to be a text heavy post, so to keep your add-riddled brain from wandering off i will be interspacing this thread with cute kpop gifs.
i made the poor prediction that it would all be over in a weeks time, however, this time it's different, the guerrila war the brave warriors of /r/warthunder are fighting is now drawing into it's second(almost third) week and there has been several developments since then, overall it's been very dtamatic.
some time after the aformentioned thread, Gaijin(the company behind the game,) released a statement about the changes they had made, or something, i dunno, i didn't read it. but what i did read was this reddit thread about it:
there are several different types of response to this, those who thought Gaijin had finally realised the error of their ways and those who called their bluff, realising that Gaijin had no intention of changing anything. there are many dtamatic comment tracks in this particular thread, sort by controversial.
but wait, there's more, you know how the redditeurs started reviewbombing the steam page for the game? well, steam decided to remove a bunch of these reviews(both positive and negative, but most of the negative ones got removed.) this did not go unnooticed by our vigilant heroes, as i will now demonstrate:
infact, steam didn't remove the reviews, but just declared them off-topic, which means they're hidden from the standard search perimeters for the reviews, this was done because most of the reviews were shitty, low quality shitposts. that of course didn't stop a host of redditeurs from thinking that gaijin and steam were conspiring against them.
moving on, at some point a boycott was decided on, starting on the 26th of may, a subreddit was created to help organise this grassroots movement called /r/warthunderplayerunion, as you can imagine this sub went the way of so many dramatard bait subs, and quickly devovled into an unhinged circlejerk, countless people claiming Gaijin was using sockpuppets to astroturf, botting accounts to inflate player numbers, the whole nine yards.
what proof exists of this botting?
you see the spike of players on the chart? obvious bot activity, no beating around the bush here, folks.
really gets the BIPOC joggin, huh
now, as we all know, reddit drama cannot exists in a vaccum without groomcord drama, so i've got good news for you
that's right, a groomercord server was made, just like the sub, to help organise the g*mers hissyfit. interestingly enough, people part of this groomercord were caught with their hands in the proverbial cookie jar, I.E playing warthunder, which is a big no-no in these cirlces with the ongoing boycott.
according to posts in that thread, it's all very standard jewcord dtama, wingcucks of both leftoid and rightoid variety vying for power, literal kids banning everybody they don't agree with, etc.
and that's about all, svende. i can't be bothered to write anymore. keep in mind this is ongoing drama, if you've got an account that can post on /r/warthunder(must be 3 days old, have 30 karma) then you too can participate in trolling these dumbass neighbors, make them belive you're a sockpuppet, astroturfing, etc.
- FamilyGuyShill : british
- babyjirl : not funny or neurodivergent enough
- UnpackThisSweaty : I never watch this schizo shit, unironically take meds.
- BONGICIDALGROYPER : TW
And more in the full vidya
He's going p-dophile busting
His peepee is just too big to be a pedo
He has a very coherent moment here
He's been in "full wank mode" recently
talks about the ways we talk about porn, domination, and submission (this is obviously connected to national socialism
jinx porn producer arc is beginning. Pee is okay. Poop is not okay.
A week ago I got a call from a random Ohio number. I always answer phone calls so the first time they called I picked up. It was some company called Nielsen doing research so I told him to frick off and went about my day.
Well, later that day, I got a call from the same number. Ignored. Next day, more calls. The next day, again more calls. This week has been very busy for me between work, friends and religious obligations so we never got in touch. Whatever, they'll stop calling at some point.
Today I was taking a very nice and well-deserved shabbos nap when a call tore me from my sleep.
Hello sir, this is Nielsen Radio Ratings and we're doing a survey....
BITCH I exclaimed You need to take my number off your list. This survey is entirely pointless as I do not listen to radio. frick off and don't call me again whatever low level wagie is receives my ire will certainly duck out politely and meekly, seething impotently, I thought to myself
Hohoho, sir. the voice of a middle aged michelle obama esque non-filipino BIPOCette boomed out you don't understand how LUCKY you are to be called by us. We are not telemarketers, we're Nielsen, blah blah blah
Hmm... a telemarketer plowing through concerted opposition? And an ameriKKKan? A black woman not responding to disrespect with more disrespect? The heck is going on here? I took another tack.
You realise I will sabotage your survey results in every way maam I neither care what Nielsen is nor listen to radio
Sir this is so IMPORTANT because your answers will DETERMINE what programming the radio carries! If you want or need something, programming, music, emergency alerts, let us know and they'll add it! We can't call every single person in the U.S. so your answers will have an outsize effect, blah blah blah
At this point my 128 IQ gigabrain (2280 SAT, 35 ACT, 130 CARS on the MCAT) was already forecasting and analyzing levels beyond what this dumb groid was telling me. Clearly Nielsen - as I half remembered - was some kind of wealthy agency that did media research and - I determined - had enough funds to hire ameriKKKans with a modicum of conversational ability and salesmanship. How could I get these persistent girl peepees to stop calling me?* As the sheboon babbled I hung up, knowing it would not solve my problem.
* I did not and will not block them as I have never in my life blocked anyone from any platform and refuse to do so
The next place to look: reddit Google turned up this thread
Surely redditors - who abhor all social interaction - have received similar calls and have somehow, annoyed and angry, found a way or magic keyword to get them to stop
NOT ONLY have these dumb fricks NOT gotten them to stop they let themselves get roped into taking the PHYSICAL SURVEY for the grand monthly total of....
Some are able to jew it up to
The ones whose greed for less money than a small black coffee at the crab shack gets them to spend 5+ minutes on a survey are pathetic enough but then I found the ones that do it for free
Then you got this absolute bottom of the barrel specimen who's proud of being ~*~ special ~*~ enough to get a gold star for tracking his braindead consoomption
This is the saga so far. Anyone with ideas for either:
non-blocking solutions to the (((nielsen))) menace
ways to frick with the next telemarketer
Let me know and I'll do it
Where's the war?
This is like no WAR I’ve ever seen!!
Still. How has it not been damaged by bombs?
there are lots of bombed mcdonalds i ukraine, just because there are som intact ones doesn't mean the war isn't still ongoing. only yesterday a hospital and vet clinic was bombed in dnipro. the war has been going on for 1,5 years, of course people have to try to live normally
HOO YES BURGER BOMBS FLYING > EVERYWHERE,,
HARD TIMES WITH OUR TAX DOLLARS PAYING EVERY THING
the DOD/Pentagon does not want you to see this.
Is our tax money going to rebuild #McDonalds . It's nicer than any of ours
this guy lives in a shitty area
That feeling when a McDonalds in a warzone is safer than the ones in ameriKKKa
Meanwhile the McDonalds in any major US city has bullet-holes in the windows 😂😂
Media really has everyone fooled. This McDonald’s looks better and more civilized than 80% of McDonald’s in the US
🚨 The Taliban is moving and deploying heavy weaponry near the Iran border. Tensions have escalated, resulting in clashes between the Taliban and Iranians, claiming lives on both sides.
Abdul Hamid Khorasani Head of Taliban’s elite forces 'Badri Unit' releases a video:
We'll fight against Iran with more enthusiasm than we fought against ameriKKKans. Iran should be grateful for the patience of the Taliban leaders. If Taliban leaders allow us, we will conquer Iran
#Afghanistan / #Iran 🇦🇫🇮🇷: #Taliban released a video of their attack on an #Iranian border post during the recent clashes.
TB apparently operates an HMMWV with M240 machine gun (former #USA/#NATO supplies), AK rifles and RPG-7 Launcher with PG-7V rocket.
Biden left over $7 billion of military equipment in Taliban-controlled Afghanistan after his failed withdrawal plan.
Today, Taliban soldiers entered Iran & attacked a military base using ameriKKKan military equipment.
Joe Biden is funding multiple wars on the taxpayer's dime.
This seems like a r-slurred take from the rightoids since both of these groups hate Amerikkka lol
That's right my rdrama babylings, it's the conclusion to yesterday's op. Unfortunately I didn't get nearly as much seethe this time (have they wizened up? My sources say no.) and I have been banned!
Like yesterday, read the entire thread. !nonchuds !jidf !commies @Aevann Even more unhinged and with double the slurs per comment!
I thought I would come over here and act like Daryl Davis for a day. Find out why you guys came here and why you think the way you do.
Instead I get hit by wave after wave of the most schizophrenic, unhinged ranting I've ever heard. Holy frick. You make /pol/ look like college professors. "MUH YOU'RE ACTUALLY A K*KE YOU ARE TOO SMART TO BE BLACK." like really now?
This was quite frankly a waste of time. None of you go outside (it shows) or have personal relationships of any kind (it shows) in real life.
You all are so very angry at the world (and probably yourselves too). I wonder, how does it feel knowing that I, a Black man, have everything you dream of? A wife. 3 beautiful Black children. A home of my own. A stable job. Friends. Community involvement. I worked for that shit.
Yet I get told here that I am a subhuman based on the color of my skin by self admitted incels (looking at you,/u/HimmlerWasRight88 - slavic nazi, incel, porn addict.) Truly masterrace material. As if hitler wouldn't have sent you to the camps. Or men like JosephGoebbels#whatever who I went digging into (I remembered his name from Ruqqus). This man is a legit p-dophile and was banned multiple times from Ruqqus for posting cp. :/
Oh well. It ain't me. It ain't mine. I'll continue to live my life while y'all get buried by the tide of history. Already your ideas are so repulsive to the average person that you have to lock yourselves here. Continue being incels, neets, cowards, and weirdos!
I wish you the best and may God have mercy on your souls. You really need it.
Ps: If you wondering why you recognize this post, I posted it at 9 am but as it turns out you guys really are all NEETS and none of you get up before noon.
A number of threads were made about me:
^ Check out the effortpost by /u/PurestEvil lmbo.
>mfw some BIPOC shows up to ConPro asking why the big scary White man doesnt like him
u/BlackState after his visit on ConPro. heck hath no fury like a dindu scorned.
u/BlackState asks ConPro why the big bad White man is being so mean to him, circa 2023 (colorized)
>mfw some BIPOC tries to come to Insurgent's territory
The face u/blackstate makes while he tries to figure out why White people don't want to be his friend.
I got accused of being a Jewish communist lmbo. Which one of you told them?
^ Definitely not seething.
I would like to thank this guy:
I didn't know that. He's not lying btw.
I got accused of being a different hated user:
This guy is wasting his breath on his fellow r-slurs
@Dramacel hear that? You ain't Black!
My fellow Jews, we're doing all that!?
Every single city in ameriKKKa is gone. We're a desolate wasteland now.
Still though, my favorite comment of the bunch was this one from yesterday:
North African Natives
Not mine but check out this WE WUZ AFRICANS N SHEEEIT cope lol
These people are drooling r-slurs who fall for everything and can't write a single sentence without BIPOCs or Jewish Chads. Give them their enemy and they will bite.
Hell, go and post Black gay porn there @BWC shit's going to stay up for hours.
Anyone who wants to could probably post this shit around reddit's mock rightoids/hate subs. Might pop off. Might not. Ideally user a 1+ year old account with min 5k karma if you do that. Title it shit like "Remember the nazis that used to be on here? Well look at what they post on their own websites."
For the past few hours, this guy has been posting maybe the most amazingly r-slurred series of comments I've seen. I mean I've seen stupider but nothing this consistent. For context, this
is the series of interaction that set off this whole
Forgot to draft it. Oops. Finishing live I guess.
Let's make a checklist. atheist = 1
fails_to_grasp_basic_logic = 1
illiterate = 1
doesn't_know_what_an_exception_is = 1
And btw there aren't even any exceptions on this. All intersex conditions still fall into male or female.
annoying = 1
muh_fallacy = 1
consistency = 0
dense = 1
define_chair = 1
autist = 0
But autist adjacent for what it's worth. And that's about it for the cataloguing. But I will say that this isn't meant to be another "lmbo s don't know what a woman is". Rather it's to mock this guy for somehow embodying almost every single thing that makes these people impossible to talk to. And this:
This is all just cope that has come about as a result of the ideological core of second wave feminism. Which is that intercourse doesn't, and shouldn't matter. This leads to the conclusion that intercourse isn't even real. And from that, comes infinite delusion to protect that concept. All beliefs are sublimated to be in service of the ideology, reality and knowledge of it never actually having been something they care about. Hence why these arguments all devolve into meaningless word games. Information isn't the point.
neurodivergent RW Twitter Sneed
Between 2018 and 2019, Röbynn Europe
a former professional body builder, worked at an Equinox on the Upper East Side, where she managed personal trainers
Years earlier, as a scholarship student at Brearley, the girls’ school several blocks away... she had experienced the coded bias of privileged teenagers. There was only one other Black student in her class
But still that had not prepared her for what she described as crass, unfiltered expressions of prejudice from male colleagues in an expensive gym, awash with the scent of eucalyptus oil if not the base notes of enlightenment
Equinox terminated her employment in less than a year because, the company said, she was late 47 times in the course of 10 months.
Ms. Europe held a different view of her firing...arguing that she had been subjected to a hostile work environment and eventually let go because of her race and gender
Last week, a predominantly white jury of five women and three men agreed...The next day they awarded her $11.25 million in damages.
the process and outcome suggest the ways in which recent transformative social movements around race and gender might reframe the way that juries think about the long shadow of emotional disruption that bigotry or sexual violence can produce
Ms. Europe, who had been an art student at Oberlin College, was an unlikely entry into the fitness world.
she took an office job at the David Barton Gym, where she worked to support herself through a tattooing apprenticeship
Racism and sexism — they are just pervasive in the fitness industry...In coastal cities, training is something you can do without a degree and you can make $75 an hour...But the management structure, she observed, is often white and male.
In response to the verdict, Equinox did not engage in the current fashion for self-reproach and vows to do better.
The case revolved in large part around allegations that a manager...repeatedly delivered his vulgar takes on Black female bodies, referred to nonwhite employees as “lazy” and expressed the hope that he could get them fired; he called one Black co-worker “neurodivergent.”
woman who was talking to a client who had specifically asked for a white trainer...
She recounted how upset she had been over her co-worker’s willingness to relay the “request as though it would just be good customer service to fulfill it.” When she told her boss, he went ahead and let the client have a white trainer anyway.
- TheOverSeether :
- Its_All_Donkey_Kong_Man : Give me a badge and I'll frick his GF.
Reminder that she has hairy pits.
Note the new pizza lore: he has one (1) outfit for being seen in public !friendsofpizzashill
I'm going to kill myself soon.
Phillip Schofield is a British television presenter. He has hosted This Morning with the highly intelligent Holly Willoughby for over a decade.
The current storyline began when Phillip Schofield came out as gay on national television.
A few years later he was struck by the brutal Queuegate which erupted when he and Holly Willoughby jumped the queue to pay respects to the Queen following her death. Queuegate led to Schofield losing his sponsorship with WeBuyCars.
Following Queuegate, reports started pouring in that Schofield is not the nicest fellow to be around.
Following this, his brother was found guilty of child coom crimes.
Schofield disowned his brother.
About a week ago, Phillip Schofield left This Morning with immediate effect. There were rumors swirling around that this was due to him being a nonce. Phillip Schofield has since admitted that he has had a relationship with the young teen and helped him get a job on ITV. He claims it was not illegal but it was unwise.
It has been reported that Schofield has been putting out injunctions on this story and paying hush money for years. Within the last few hours, Willoughby has stated that Schofield lied to her about the relationship.
The saga continues and you can bet I will keep you updated.
She seems like a nice girl, I wonder how she reacts to people calling her pictures filtered
These images are incredibly filtered. So it’s very hard to say.
There is zero texture on the face. This has become more prevalent as “beauty filters” are essentially embedded in photo processing these days, but a face like that is the result of very aggressive processing indeed.
Bro 😭 good angles + makeup, I jus got smooth skin, I look like this irl
Someone pissing on your echo chamber? I know, they are always super insanely positive here so it must really chafe. Nice call on the kink shaming, at least your unaware irony is cute.
You like piss anything you say is instantly invalidated u freak, ain’t taking shit from a marvel fan with a piss kink get outta here goofy 😭😭
Ur blurred in all the pictures and you seem like a very mean girl
You know, I got very close to posting your pics on a subreddit for people lying about filters and I got the screenshots and all. But I don’t want anyone coming after you because I care deeply about our community even if some in it act like you.
Edit: Another great comment thread right at the bottom. The one person who turns up to defend OP is just as catty
God darn Welcome to the club, the non passing ones love hatting😂🥰
“Haha non passing trans women are fricking disgusting freaks am I right girlie pop? They love to hate on us cause we’re pretty and passing and not because we’re acting like mean girls.”
If thats how you see them as “ fricking disgusting freaks” thats on you and no ones acting like a mean girl , she wasnt acting like a mean girl she was looking for support from her sisters which she clearly did not receive and reacted accordingly.
My sister in Christ, she literally called someone a freak and a weirdo for saying the photo looks filtered. This is a place for honest feedback, not a toxic positivity. It’s unreasonable to ask for feedback and then call people freaks when they give you an answer you’re not happy with.
As she should, shes clearly prettier than 95% of T girls just tell her that she looks nice or not , not that she uses a filter😂 no ones passing ability rellies on a filter that just helps with making your skin softer. Atleast she has the guts to show what she looks like compared to other people?
It goes on like that for a few more comments, but you get the idea
Pure kino, he brought back all the main heroes and villains for an epic showdown
Seems like he used actual audio from a victim recounting their abuse at the hands of chiobu . Pretty grim but his filmmaking has always been provocative.
No I wouldn't box and it shouldn't be allowed for anyone because of ouchies:marseybrainlet:
Literally who cares that they become as smart as you
Are you really that foolish/ignorant? Males of equal weight hit 160 % harder onto a less dense bone structure of a female body. World boxing have said no way, it’s dangerous! And male boxers said no to fighting trans men because they feared killing one & being accused of man slaughter! Do your research
"Olympic medalist, 12 x Olympics 3 racing" why are so many transphobes out today
You’re 46 with “tiny skinny genes”. Nobody is letting you into a boxing ring with a male.
I'm using this marsey because that's how most women would end up
Btw, for all the , this isn't an anti trans post this is an anti cis . If you comment transphobic stuff I will talk badly about you behind your back
- chiobu : congrats king
i love him so much
this boywife is now taken
- ACA : We must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence by the Mop-Industrial Complex
I am running out of ping groups to leave.
Please brainstorm solutions to the ping group problem itt
come and get them that we laugh
Just tell them that French is stupid and especially prevents the brain from developing well.
It's clear that it will really bring back many of the locals to revolt to say such nonsense ...
Jacobin propaganda deceives you well about your completely artificial country. Here's what the France is (not to mention the DOM-TOM):
No but I'm an Alsatian regionalist huh, just that your arguments are exploded on the ground, you will convince nobody with it. Saying "the French are mentally limited" as an argument for people to revolt, it does not work factually.
Alsatian regionalist? No hope, we must be maso, but attachment to Germany.
Belgium is a country that does not really exist and whose purpose is only to occupy a territory that no one really wants... It's not for nothing that the European Commission was screwed up...
Jean Stengers (ULB) demonstrated the secular existence of Belgium: https:// http://justitia-veritas.be/justitia-verit as/belgium/history/origin-of-belgium/roots-of-belgium-jean-stengers/ So far, no zozo has been able to contradict him... Apart from that, the France does not really exist: Tahitians, Corsicans, ... are subjugated peoples.😉
Jean Stengers has been largely contradicted by Philippe Destatte, José Fontaine... His own daughter admitted that he was the spearhead of a Brussels-Belgian school. His writings are filled with small dishonest omissions and pecking of all kinds.
Already wins a world cup before daring to make this request. 😂😂
It is true that France has not been able to win without its African legion. NB And football is for the "barakîs".😆😆
Oh, a nasty racist. To believe that your racialized are less good than the French. Loser.
Try to keep your country together.😂😂
Having spoken to bcp about Belgians, I have the impression that there is a slight scent of racism, including many expressions of language banned for a long time in our country ...
What language do you write in and why do you want to annex northern Triso?😂
"In what language" You spit on your French. Nothing to f... From your idiotic language: https:// http://justitia-veritas.be/justitia-veritas/belgium/languages-cultures/french/idiot-language/ It will still be necessary to publish a book (voluminous) on this subject so that the Frouzes no longer believe themselves to be a superior race...😆😆
Okay golem. Go on your Walloon which is badly spoken French 🤣
😆 The Walloon language is ... superior to the Fruze language: https:// http://justitia-veritas.be/gjw-walon-otes-languages-europe-walon-languages-romaneswalon-frances/ And between us, French is also inferior to ALL European languages, ... One day will have to evolve. But for a francophone, it's a lost mission.
yes you're a troll what
"French is the universal language of motherf..." (MTV) (Vous captez cette chaîne dans votre trou?) 😉
You're embarrassing to a big point, I've never seen that
You've never seen much, little Frouze. You can't imagine how much young people here hate the millions of racists in your country.
Don't talk about what doesn't concern you. The French of all regions laugh at your little France. And say thank you for the support for the liberation.
Liberation? In 1944, millions of French people turned their jackets around... Just in time. darn, it's not in history classes in Frouzeland.😆
Nan that of 1830 without which the word "Belgium" would be only a wet dream of some tocard of your kind.
FRANCE = FN + RACE (Philippe Geluck)
Stay focused on the subject and say thank you frit.
Fun fact: Platy is nocturnal, which is why it's dark af in this picture
Bardy has decided to say that no heccin' gynophobia is allowed on /r/frickthealtright
This will go over well, especially since he's a sexist who beats women.
Only good porn please
- uwu : FAKE NEWS: of 19,488 registered users, only 9 have the hot badge. 99.95% of us are uggos.
Let’s be real, you’re terminally online🤓🤓 , you’re mostly boomers 🤢🤢, and half of you are incels 🙄🙄. I see at least a dozen of you making fun of fats without a thin badge too. Disgusting. If you’re above a 5/10 I want photo evidence.
To whoever sent their selfie to mod mail you’re a 4 at best.
She was shot 10 months ago by a stray bullet while thotting in a club in Texas, apparently, but I couldn't find an old post here, so I'm highlighting it now because it's funny.
She has 2 kids and just turned 33
The post RS unneedfully censored:
I was shot in my leg yesterday won’t be able post much.
The comment in the rs screenshot is deleted, but here's this
Post she pinned to her profile has some simp vs incel fighting
Needed a blood transfusion 🩸today. Grateful for any and all support I can get. Venmo cash app and Onlyfans in my bio if you want to help! Or share me with friends!
darn, sucks you got shot, but shouldn’t you be worried about getting better and take a break from the OF, and asking for money?
No that would be incredibly stupid of me still have bills and now pilling up. Thank you for the concern tho
Get a job..
babe she can’t fricking walk who tf is gonna hire her rn
This is what happens when you depend on naked photos to pay bills. Should have been home at night if you have kids.
To bad she was shot at work dumbass and onlyfans girl usually do it as spare income you ignorant frick.
No, this is what happens when the US is the only country in the world without public Healthcare, and half of all ameriKKKans can't afford to see a doctor, that is 200 mil ameriKKKans because half of all jobs in the US can't pay for nothing.
Correct and thank you second for the ignorant fricks I got shot at work so frick off.
Little more healthcare debate under that one.
I know what I see Ma…Lookin passed the titties and all the extra…DONT GET ME WRONG…GIVES ME WOOD AND WHATNOT BUT I SEEN STRENGTH WHEN I SAW THAT POST💪🏽🙏🏽🤟🏽💯
Kang made two similar comments in the thread
A true coomer I suppose? Always finding the light to coom in darkness.
Here's the rest of her journey
First off I’m okay just in so much pain. I was Shot last night and working on surgery for repairing my knee today. In desperate need of all the support I can get I can’t work for 6 months at least.
She posted that one twice
No cast and no I’m in the hospital still. Later on my Onlyfans maybe
Well at least you have two more holes to post on only fans 🤗
Thank please come support definitely can use it or share me with friends.
Post surgery! Please if you can and would like to help my cash app and Onlyfans are in my bio!
Thankfully our Queen has a happy ending. Her most recent post 25 days ago
Thanks for all the birthday wishes.🎂🎉 Going out tonight buy me drinks links 👇🏼
So inspiring to see a strong independent woman overcome the odds
I wonder how many coomers have some sort of injury/hospital fetish? Wouldn't put it past moids.
Anyway, the most important part of the post is your poll rDrama